Posted on 09/26/2001 10:18:32 PM PDT by projectile
Modern man groans under the weight of false conceptions regarding family, communal, and national excellence. These false conceptions, which are easily discernible in all types of individuals and at all levels of society, issue from self-centredness which, in religious language, is called "the depravity of man. This inner corruption is essentially rooted in the human heart and reveals itself in opposition to the welfare of the whole of society. Moreover, it manifests itself in rebellion against the Holy and Living God. The poisonous effects of sin have so corrupted men's hearts that, in spite of their awareness of its evil, they enjoy it and freely indulge in it. It was this fundamental problem of sin and the search for freedom from its guilt and bondage which confronted Sultan Muhammed Paul.
There may be those who choose to overlook the problem of sin and the way of salvation. They prefer to veil the condition of their hearts from themselves and others, though they well know that the hidden things of the heart are open to the inspection of God. For such persons, this story will have little relevance. Yet, there are others who are deeply concerned about sin and salvation in their own lives as well as the lives of their fellow men. For them, this booklet will help in the examination their own experiences in light of those of Sultan Muhammed Paul. May it prove to be a source of guidance and blessing from the Living God for all who ponder its contents.
Sultan Muhammad Paul testimony
Abraham, in Old Testament times, became the father of the faithful when he believed God, and the Scripture says it was counted to him as righteousness -- in other words, God accepted Abraham on the basis of his faith -- and the Bible even calls Abraham God's friend. This all happened way before the Cross. God made a covenant with Abraham on the basis of his faith -- the "Abrahamic Covenant."
Every person who followed after Abraham had a choice to make about believing God on the basis of how He had revealed Himself. Out of Abraham's lineage the Jewish nation was born. God continued to reveal Himself and His law progressively to the Israelites. That provided the framework for faith (when Israel would obey God!) and the framework into which the Messiah could be born ... a nation that awaited the Savior. Israel understood sin and hell and faith, etc., but they had to wait for the Messiah. Until He came, God set up a system of worship and atonement, yearly sacrifices of blood in the form of bulls, rams, lambs, etc. If people believed in God, they performed the worship and brought the sacrifices. This covered their sin but could not cleanse it, wash it away, remove it.
Still with me? I really am going somewhere with this!
When Jesus came to earth, He came as the Lamb of God, sinless, without blemish. He offered His sinless life as a sacrifice in our place before God for all our sins. His blood now does what all the blood of bulls and goats could never do: it washes our consciences and cleanses us in God's eyes, when we step up and accept what Jesus did for us.
But Jesus had another mission to finish after He died and before He rose from the dead. He spent three days in hell. Did you ever wonder what He did during those three days? The book of Ephesians in the Bible says this:
EPH 4:7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high [rose from the dead and returned to His Father], he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men."
He led captives into freedom behind Him when He arose because He revealed Himself to the physically dead who came before Him just as He had revealed Himself to the physically living while He walked on earth. Part of the freedom is that we are no longer bound to sin and a fear of death -- He canceled our covenant with death. But also check this out:
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I do not understand the totality of what happened while Jesus was in hell, but it is clear that while He was there, He revealed Himself to those who had believed in God under the Abrahamic covenant. I can't fathom that He did not also reveal Himself to all who were dead ... but that point isn't as clear in Scripture.
The Bible teaches us that the one thing that will keep us out of heaven is not having faith in Jesus as our Savior. If not hearing the gospel -- not being given a chance to bow before Christ -- were grounds to be excluded, then that would put aside the need for faith in Christ -- a lack of hearing about Christ would take greater precedence on Judgment Day than faith in God's Son's gift of salvation. That would mean that the devil who had kept people from hearing by his nefarious plots and plans were being given more power than God, which is not the case. And yet no one gets into heaven without faith in Christ as his Savior ... so I have to trust to God's mercy and absolutely righteous nature that He has this all sorted out somehow. I suspect an earlier poster got it right when he or she said that everyone who hasn't heard the gospel before death is going to be given the knowledge of Christ before judgment -- One might tend to think that, seeing Jesus in His glory and seeing hell on the other side would make a believer out of anyone -- the foxhole converts, as they say. But Scripture does teach us that there are those who are so wicked that they will curse God even as they are being taken away to hell.
Someone else said earlier on the thread that the one thing that is most important is for YOU to know your sins are taken care of before the Father. With all my heart, I urge you to pray that prayer posted above (from Carol Hu-Tex), if you haven't done so already. I can promise you this: once you belong to Him, God will start explaining life to you and a lot of these types of questions will begin to be answered as you study His Word and are in fellowship with a good, strong, Bible-believing church. And I can promise you this, too. If you do have him in your heart as Savior, He'll start burdening you to pray for and share your faith with some of those Moslems and Sikhs, and others around the world who don't know Him ... yet.
This question has plagued me, as it does most Christians. I've taken every opportunity to ask several Bible believing pastors this question, and the consistent answer I recieved is that we simply don't know what happens to the "good pagan." Paul states in the New Testament "We are all judged according to what we know." (Sorry, I can't remember the exact cite, does anyone out there have it?) In his book, Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis suggests that if all must come to God throught Christ, and Christ is God, could he not individually judge the good pagan? Generally, what I've learned from pastors is exactly what others have said on this post. Through the Bible, God told me how I get to heaven, and I need to follow the instructions I've been given. I need to trust our loving and just God to do the right thing about good non-believers.
Suppose you had a child that was starving, and food was made available to you to save that child, and you refused to take it and give it to the child?
Now suppose God sent His Son to pay the penalty for all sins on His cross, that "whosoever believeth" should not perish, but have everlasting life, and you refused to take it -- give it to yourself, refused to allow yourself to have it?
What happened to the people before Jesus died on the cross?
They were under law, and had to do works -- keep the law -- to be saved. We also know that David sinned and yet was forgiven and made it to heaven.
And we know that sacrifices of the Old Testament were types or pictures of the true sacrifice, the Lamb of God, and so faith and reliance on them and observance of them, being types, was important -- presuming and ascribing grace to God -- and honoring the blood atonement. Remember that even in Old Testament times, "Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."
Is there scripture for that Carol?
I know that it says He is "Just"..but that has a different feel than "fair"
Is there scripture for that? it seems like a" give me".Who would reject God on judgement day?
That sounds abit like "earning" salvation on your own..I dont think that the scriptures that those 10 commandments came from agree with that assessmment
John3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Only the blood of Jesus Christ saves..not our good works or adherence to the commandments...Gods word says that what we do on our own to earn heaven ...our own righteousness....is like a filthy rag that collected the drainage of the wounds of a leper..
Ask God to show you how to draw close to Him ....read His word....
What? At physical death, one's fate is sealed, totally, completely, irrevocably, forever. There won't be any more chances after that. I feel that even those who are burning in hell fire, would still reject God, and would rather remain in hell, than serve Him.
Scripture tells us that to be absent from the body is to be present to God ...there is no later..there is no second opportunity...Those that believe will be saved..those that refuse here will never change their mind.
There is no second opportunity.
What scripture? Citation please!
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sin, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit;
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also unto them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
I'm not a theologian, but here goes... When God gave man free will, man gained the ability to rebel against God. But the price for choosing to rebel is high -- it demands death, because God cannot abide sin. "For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23) In the "Old Testament" times, a substitute could be offered in place of the sinner -- atonement for sin required animal sacrifice. When Christ came, and died on the cross, he, having lived a perfect life, became the perfect sacrifice, and as such, the substitute for the blood required by sin for those who believe in him.
(paraphrasing)For everyone - including you - who are concerned about "all the heathen" who don't know about Jesus and who, therefore, are headed for hell (which is eternal separation from GOD - whose son, Jesus, is very God and very Man - the God-man) - he says the surest way to ease your worry is to be sure you are not a part of them. Come in - take Jesus Christ as your SAvior and Lord - and then He will send you out to bring as many of "the heathen" to Him before they die!
He further says that the Word of God is crystal clear: No one comes to the Father except they come through Jesus Christ. In other words, there is no way to eternal life with God except through Jesus Christ. Lewis also reminds us that in the letter to the Romans, we see that somehow, in God's infinite wisdom, those who do not know Him are judged by what they do know. Frankly, I don't know how God is going to work all of this out.
But this I do know.
Apart from Jesus Christ, it is impossible to be "saved" - to receive the salvation of God.
Why not give Him a try? Why not put this objection you have on the "shelf" and investigate the trughs of who He is, how much he loves you and each of us, and find out if He is real or not. He will take care of answering the rest of your questions in time.
Try Jesus - in truth - ask Him to come and touch and transform your life - IF HE IS TRUE - and then thank Him for doing so. You don't have to be emotional. You don't even have to "feel" anything.
Just try Jesus Christ. Then let Him answer your questions.
By the way - if you are concerned about "justice" - for the heathen.
Where is the justice in this?
God sends his Son who though He knew no sin, becomes SIN for us dead Godless sinners - taking the punishment due our SIN on HIM that WE might not come into Judgement - but have eternal life - we who to Jesus have turned for salvation.
How is that JUST?
It is only Just because our God is not only Holy and Righteous and Just - but He is also a God of grace, mercy, and love and LIFE. He (God the Father) willingly suffered the sending of His Son to suffer and die for us. He (God the Son) willingly obeyed His father to come and suffer and die a death most of us cannot even come close to imagining in its horror and humiliation). God the Father raised Jesus the Son from the dead - exalting Him above every name on, below, or above the earth.....BECAUSE He was willing to obey His father and come and die for us who believe!
Frankly - if I had been God - I would probably have just left this stinking earth and its depraved human beings to suffer the judgement they were (I am) (you are) due!
But, thanks be to God, I am not in charge - and neither are you.
The incomparable GIFT to each of us and to this earth corporately is the GIFT of God's Son Jesus Christ! Why not try Him! Give him a sincere try! It is never too late to turn to Him! May the Hound of Heaven who has been seeking you your whole life not stop til you, too, are "caught" and turn to Him. There is nothing to lose (but sin, death, and hell) - and everything (forgiveness and cleansing of your sin, empowerment for life today, and the eternal security of knowing you will be with Him Forever!
Her family were all Muslims who had as a holy duty murdering any muslims who converted to Christianity. That is a known fact among most Muslims overseas. If one of the family becomes an "infidel", it is the obligation of the nearest male relatives to kill that one.
The woman who wrote this was a well to do person in her country. She opened her house and invited all those surrounding to come in and dine at a huge banquet - taking literally what Jesus said to do in this regard.
The rest of the story is one well worth the read......
I Dared to Call Him "Father"
What happened to the people before Jesus died on the cross?
As someone else said earlier, the Catholic Church has no such doctrine. Check out this link for info on your particular question, and click on the link at the top of the page to go to a general listing of FAQ's.
Let Jesus tell us
Luke 16:19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
16:20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
16:21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
16:22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
16:23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
16:24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
16:26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
16:27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
16:28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
16:29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
16:30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
16:31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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