Airlines Have Authority to Arm Pilots, Crew

Cornell Law web site ^ | 9-26-01 | Bob Locke

[John R. (Bob) Locke]

There's been a lot of talk in the last couple of weeks about how to best provide for passenger safety once a plane is off the ground.

Armed air marshals already exist, but primarily on international flights. That role appears to be on its way to massive expansion to include all domestic flights. (I am intending to apply for a position, as a matter of fact.)

The other popular idea is arming the pilot and cockpit crew. This is the one that I'd like to examine for a moment.

A friend of mine pointed me to a section of Title 14 (Aeronautics and Space - referenced above) and made the comment that it is his opinion that arming pretty much anyone on-board a flight is totally at the discretion of the airlines themselves. I'm snipping the relevant parts, and hope that you'll all read the entire chapter (it's not that long).

TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
(Continued)

PART 108--AIRPLANE OPERATOR SECURITY--Table of Contents

Sec. 108.11 Carriage of weapons.

(a) No certificate holder required to conduct screening under a security program may permit any person to have, nor may any person have, on or about his or her person or property, a deadly or dangerous weapon, either concealed or unconcealed, accessible to him or her while aboard an airplane for which screening is required unless:
(1) The person having the weapon is--
(i) An official or employee of the United States, or a State or political subdivision of a State, or of a municipality who is authorized by his or her agency to have the weapon; or
(ii) Authorized to have the weapon by the certificate holder and the Administrator and has successfully completed a course of training in the use of firearms acceptable to the Administrator.

(5) The certificate holder--
(i) Ensures that the armed person is familiar with its procedures for carrying a deadly or dangerous weapon aboard its airplane before the time the person boards the airplane;

[John R. (Bob) Locke]

Looking for some opinions from the legal types out there.

[John R. (Bob) Locke]

Bump for a legal opinion. Please bump any and all of the other legal types, if you would.

[BurkeanCyclist]

The FAA is planning to change this to forbid pilots from being armed.

I'll try to find the thread on that subject.

[BurkeanCyclist]

Here we go: FAA Plans to Disarm Flight Crews

[Countdown]

I believe "the Administrator" refers to the FAA administrator.

[jbg]

Authorized to have the weapon by the certificate holder and the Administrator and has successfully completed a course of training in the use of firearms acceptable to the Administrator.

If "Administrator" is FAA then it looks like both the carrier and FAA must authorize it.

[morque2001]

Damn, to think that they could have been carrying them all along makes me shudder. CNN has had a banner running that Bush is against the pilots having them also, still waiting to hear the story.

[pray4liberty]

We need a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" gun policy for our pilots.

[CFIIIMEIATP737]

The Principal Operations Inspector for the local FAA Flight Standards District Office usually acts on the part of the administrator. So it could be approved at the local level.

Question: Would the POI (prinicipal ops inspector) exercise their authority to do this, or would they buck it up the chain of command for an opinion? I wager they would refer it to the higher-ups.

[Fixit]

Bump for recent other threads.

[dcwusmc]

(5) The certificate holder--
(i) Ensures that the armed person is familiar with its procedures for carrying a deadly or dangerous weapon aboard its airplane before the time the person boards the airplane;

It seems that THIS would do the trick, all by itself!!!

[Shooter 2.5]

I was in line at a booth at the gunshow when two people bought over 400 dollars of holsters and magazine pouches. I heard their conversation and they were talking to an instructor about getting licensed for carrying on an airliner. I thought they were two people who didn't realize that, judging by their ages, they didn't know that they couldn't be sky marshals because of their age.

I waited until they left the instructor and asked them if they were trying to become marshals. They informed me that they were pilots and that they understood the the government was very close to signing legislation arming pilots. They told me that it passed the House and Senate and that it was back in committee. This was the first I ever heard of that and I thanked them and left.

[TERMINATTOR]

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but, this is all illegal since infringements on the peoples right to keep and bear arms are prohibited by the second amendment. The FAA may not set arms restrictions on anyone outside the fed gov, and maybe then only when they're "on duty".