The Roots of Muslim Rage

The Atlantic Monthly ^ | September, 1990 | Bernard Lewis

[cicero's_son]

Outstanding article. Thank you for posting it.

Have you read Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations?" I'm starting it tonight, having just ordered it from BarnesandNoble.com.

[Anonymous2]

in both cases you must seperate realities: both religions have a 'caste' type of system, both basically creating 2nd and 3rd tier citizens by the nature of their government and their religion. there is no middle class of any proportion in the totalitarian islamic regimes, which perpetuates a need for a false, albeit (?) comforting effect derived from *religion*.

[Torie]

I have read extracts and book reviews of Huntington's book. My impression is that Huntington overstates his case, but that does not mean that the book is not worthwhile.

[tacticalogic]

For true believers to rule misbelievers is proper and natural, since this provides for the maintenance of the holy law, and gives the misbelievers both the opportunity and the incentive to embrace the true faith. But for misbelievers to rule over true believers is blasphemous and unnatural, since it leads to the corruption of religion and morality in society, and to the flouting or even the abrogation of God's law.

There you have it. If you wish to have a faith other than Islam, then you must subjugate yourself to the Islamics, convert all the Islamics to some other faith, kill them, or die. Their rules, not ours.

[cicero's_son]

Hmmm. My understanding is that he himself admits that he overstates his case for emphasis, it being rather hard to construct a theory of international relations out of gelatin.

In any case, I'm looking forward to reading it. I may post some of it when I'm finished.

[tessalu]

I think the article is NOT worthwhile for the facts are not straight. In Islam evil can be counted as good. When one reads the bible, one knows all ready that Satan has often appeared to men as an "angel of light". And when the "angel" came to muhammed, muhammed believed the angel was from God, even though he had no proof. There is absolutley no proof that the angel was from God. The allah of the Quran does not have the same attributes of Jehovah or Yaweh of the bible. The allah of the Quran is not loving and caring, he is most cruel and calls his followers "slaves" and he demands obedience under penalty of death, and he dares anyone to speak against him. It is okay with allah to force his commands on people and control them. The God of the bible calls his followers his children, and he wants only the willing. They are not the same! Islam claims to believe in Moses, Jesus and others, but Muhammed did not even follow the 10 commandments. So this tells me that allah of the Quran and the God of the bible, who wrote his law on tablets of stone with his own hand, are just not the same. All good things come from God, and the evil comes from Satan, the destroyer.

[onedoug]

#18: So?

[Common Tator]

Muslim countries are quite rich, and still quite fundamentalist

My point, very poorly made, is the in many cases religion is about power and the domination of peoples. It is not all that much about saving souls. I focused on how religious governments leverage religious power in poor nations. Religions at the start must gain converts. At first they are mostly about saving the world and all the people in it. Later many become Us against Them in focus. Many times the theology changes from convert the infidel to destroy the infidel. That is often based on falure to convert the infidel. Apologists point to the first stage beliefs as if they were the current beliefs. That is a very dangerous thing to do.

It is much easier in some respects in a rich nation that has a history of poverty. The Rich arabs have only been rich since the Automobile became a factor. God has blessed us and we must destory the infidel. God will be angry and take our wealth from us if we fail to kill the infidel. That is often the pitch in the rich nations. It works on fear. Fear is a good motivator. Always has been.

Militant religions and nations are always about gaining and retaining power. I have always marveled how a Hitler could convince Germany that Jews were the source of all their problems. Germany at the time was the most educated nation on earth. Yet their people bought it.

I think it is because they were ready to believe it. They wanted someone to blame. Hitler gave them some one to blame. There was a 1000 year history of anti semitism in Europe and England. Read Shakespeare's "As You Like It" for proof. If Germans could beleive that Jews were the source of all evil, we should not be surprised at what others believe about us.

It is true however. Leaders look where the crowd is going, then get out in front to lead them. Hitler honed his pitch to what worked. So does Osama bin Laden.

It comes back to my theory that people always get the governments they want.

Bin Laden did not create this horse. He is just one of its current riders.

When people are willing to die for a cause, you have to kill the cause or the cause will kill you.

[FITZ]

It's an interesting article but I kind of think they are just like the Nazis, their leaders have convinced them that Jews are the cause of all their problems and that Jews need to die. An in our case they've decided there are too many Jews in the US and they think Jews control the US and that the US is too interested in saving the Jews from the fate they want to give them in the Middle East. Bin Laden is really nothing but a reincarnated Hitler motivated by hate and genocide.

[vrwc54]

Bump

[onedoug]

Again though, what's he ever done for any other muslim with all his billions(?), except to rail in hate and perpetuate terror as a perpetual victim?

I'd be surprised if he practices Al-Zakat, or any other tenet of the faith.

[TheDon]

Governments are overthrown all the time. Governments do not make People. People make governments. They adopt them and throw them away at will. Most governments are less than 60 years old.

Yes, governments, whose power base becomes insufficient to maintain it, are overthrown. And people do not overthrow them at will, remember the Eastern Block countries during the Cold War.

In the Middle East, the regimes are all totalitarian governments of one form or another. The governing regimes have the military and police apparatus to keep the people under control. Anyone who wants to try and overthrow the government get their head chopped off, or a bullet to the back of the head, or a tank rolled over them like the Chinese. He11, the South didn't exactly succeed in overthrowing the North in our country.

Arafat, Fayd, and even the Eqyptian leadership would like to restrain the Muslim hate. King Fayd of Saudi Arabia is afraid the militant Muslims will over throw his government.

After fomenting anti-Western/American hatred among their subjects for so long, they have found it is getting out of their control in many instances. Also, their grip on power is slipping. Those they rely on to sustain their power are getting sucked into the propaganda they fostered for so long, thereby diminishing the power of their governments.

Palistinians watch CNN more than you do.

I doubt you have any knowledge of their CNN viewship numbers. They get what the PA transmits to them over the state controlled TV.

They hate us. We do not have a leader problem. If we killed all the leaders they would just get new leaders. We have a 200 million follower problem.

They hate us in the same way the Japanese did in WWII. They have been given plenty of propaganda, remember, these are not free and open societies. We must take care of the leaders and the followers, the leaders must stop the propaganda, and the followers must be exposed to the truth.

Nations always get the governments they want.

Utter nonsense. Tell that to the Eastern block countries during the Cold War. He11, tell that to the countries making up the former Soviet Union.

You must get it through your head that some nations do not want freedom. Many people do not want freedom.

More nonsense. They may support a new government because they hate the old and think the new government will give them a better life, but in this they may be quite disappointed. Those who support repressive regimes are either part of the power structure, hope to be, or are to afraid to do otherwise.

The educated Germans of the 1930's wanted Hitler more than they wanted freedom.

More nonsense. They weren't thinking they were trading freedom for Hitler.

We don't have a leader problem.. We have a follower problem. If all we do is kill the leaders the followers will just get new leaders.

Actually, we have a leader and a follower problem. The leaders have been propagandizing the followers with lies, this must stop. The terrorist threat is a direct result of this propaganda. It will take time for the followers to get a hold of the truth and begin to look on the West and the US correctly. It can be done, look at the Japanese. They were propagandized just as badly, yet they overcame it.

It is important to get the correct framework to understand the full dimensions of this conflict, see the link below. Also, I have bookmarked some related articles on my personal page.

Operation Infinite Justice: The Big Picture

[TheMole]

There was a 1000 year history of anti semitism in Europe and England. Read Shakespeare's "As You Like It" for proof.

Uhhh... wasn't that The Merchant of Venice ?

In any case, that was a pretty good article. The point about the Soviet Union/Russia having a major Muslim problem that they attempt to repress harshly, without incurring the kind of fanatical rage that America does, is a good one. He might have further described how Algeria is fighting a fanatical, ruthlessly bloodthirsty Islamic fundamentalist insurrection that has absolutely nothing to do with Israel or the USA.

[MHGinTN]

Approximately 1000 Muslims were slaughtered in the WTC terror attack. The history of Islam is sprinkled with periods of murder in the name of Allah, murder of less zealous Muslims, and the Koran and hadiths promote this approach to amintaining the 'faith'.

When a people are compelled to follow a totalitarian leadership, the first generation is filled with hate and fear, the second generation is fearful but hopeful, the third generation is obedient and complaint.

9/11 is a prime example of mass murder that is glossed over with a patina of respectability by appealing to religious ambiquities to be found generously throughout the Koran. If the fanatics'war is to end without millions of deaths (regardless of whom those deaths are attributed to since bin Laden would be more than please to sacrifice millions of Muslims in order to reshape the world in the image he serves--satanic subjugation0 ... if the war is too end, it is the Muslim world of sanity now so timid to assert itself that must do so, else we will end this war for them regardless of the collateral damage; our homes are already under seige, we'll take our terrible destructive power to their homes as the fanatics escalate this terror, and the sooner the timid Muslims realize this the sooner they may arise to stand against the madness they now support in weak complicity.

Perhaps some 'marshall plan' to establish reasonable government in these now terrorist supporting states will come, but unless the Muslim world rejects these fanatics, these terrorists, these mass murderers, we will annihilate them to get rid of the terrorist bases of money, property, and proselytes ... the young of these terrorist supporting states are the product of the parents' raising, not bin Laden's parenting, make no mistake on that for we will, if needs be, kill thousands of these misled kids to end terrosim as it is now spreading. We are at war with totalitarian fanatics, not Muslims of honor. we must annihilate them and allow the moderate, co-existence oriented Muslims assume control.

Finally, ask yourself this to get a feel for the message: when will the drug culture cease to exploit the hood? ... When the indiividuals in the hood expel and reject the drug culture promoters. Is that an economic question? The liberals would like to have us believe so, but it is cultural in origin, not economic. When will fanatics cease to exploit the Mulism world that wants to co-exist and live in peace? ... It's really not hard to see the answer to that, but we will have to give the effort a push with an horrific, overwhelming power response, then back away and set up for the next targets. Let's hope the Muslim world gets the picture clearly, because I pray we do not stop if they do not for our very existence is riding in the balance if we stop before the wrok is done. I would much rather see the Muslim world do the majority of the work against the fanatical satan servants, but if it doesn't, we must do it or die.

[Michael2001]

" I wonder who is going to prevail? It sounds like there is no hope for a rational solution. It's us or them."

Very good question. They have the will to win but not the means. We have the means but not the will. Whichever one of us gets both first, will win.

[Michael2001]

" It's an interesting article but I kind of think they are just like the Nazis, their leaders have convinced them that Jews are the cause of all their problems and that Jews need to die."

It's not just the Jews. They don't like us much either. Just they have a saying "first the Saturday people, then the Sunday people" so for now they are focusing primarily on the Saturday people (Jews). When they are done they will come for us, or we will stop them before they defeat the Saturday people.

[Teacher317]

"The Roots of Muslim Rage"? Meaningless. Emotions do not follow religious boudaries. Go group-think elsewhere.

To all you Jihadists and their apologists: Feel whatever you want, you murderous slime. I could care less. Feelings are fleeting, transitory, and temporary. Your kind acted on their feelings... Your brethren made them permanent, burned into concrete and memories with jet fuel and blood... You helped murder 6000 of my countrymen. You don't the courtesy of explaining your rationale. You simply, quickly, and angrily get hit back now.

You want rage? We'll show you rage.

We're coming.

[FITZ]

It's not just the Jews. They don't like us much either.

They hate everybody. That's one reason I don't think we have to worry too much about any non-Muslims joining their side. Even China might be our enemy but they probably prefer us over Islamic world domination, especially when they break their Buddhas and would be big problem for the Communists. Hindus get killed by Muslims. African Christians are killed by Muslims.

[mathurine]

Islamic cultures have succeeded in taking their nations and peoples from greatness to marginality on their way to nothingness. It has little to do with western civilization and much to do with their lack of anything much. Get realistic. Most of the places where Islam now reigns were significant players in the world before Islam took root, and count for nothing much in the aftermath. Islam may be a nice religion, but the culture it has spawned is a loser in every case that can be named.