Pacifism and War-Thomas Sowell

townhall.com ^ | Sept.24, 2001 | Thomas Sowell

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

On the international scene, trying to assuage aggressors' feelings and look at the world from their point of view has had an even more catastrophic track record.

Neville Chamberlain = Clinton Admin./UN/EU/pacifists ping.

[CWOJackson]

Interesting read.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

What Winston Churchill understood at the time, and Chamberlain did not, was that Hitler was driven by what Churchill called "currents of hatred so intense as to sear the souls of those who swim upon them." That was also what drove the men who drove the planes into the World Trade Center.

Today is Sept. 24th. Against American cries for retaliation, and misguided pacifists cries for negotiation, the Bush administration is doing what needs to be done in a wise and thorough fashion. No one can claim with any credibility that we are "rushing into war."

The Clinton clean-up is more extensive than any of us could dream.

When the terrorists and the host countries end their internal fighting...we'll mop up the rest of them!

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Pacifists are among the most immoral of men. They make no distinction between agression and defense. Therefore, pacifism is one of the greatest allies an agressor can have.

Great line.(^:

[RJayneJ]

Thanks for the nomination! };^D)

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Ping for the man.

[michaelt]

Thanks for posting this. The Jackson story deserves its own thread. I have some comments on other posts.

The Chamberlin quote about "understanding their mentality" would make a nice quiz question for pacifists that you may come across. At least Chamberlin eventually saw the mistakes he made. "Professor" Robert Jensen never will.

Jesse is complaining about hate crimes? How about the 10,000 or so committed on September 11? I have yet to see Jesse Jackson on national TV since then. Am I just lucky, or have the networks actually decided that he has noting of substance or relevance to add to our nation at this time?

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

The Jackson story deserves its own thread. I have some comments on other posts.

I agree. We expect this from Jackson, but a few press heads should roll, IMHO. Doing a search to see if Ken Timmerman, the author of the original InsightMag piece does a follow-up. If not, FR will. A vanity with the title, "Why is the Press Lying About Jesse Jackson?" could be a simple way for us to provide links, comments, draw the attention of the negligent press lurkers...What do you think?

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

I neglected to mention that someone from Hotline said on Washington Journal this morning that JJ was making his first public statements about the attack today in the press, and that he is supportive of the President. Big lie. The press knows that JJ was very public Sept. 15th, and very critical of President Bush's administration. Check out the link at post #13.

[michaelt]

Your idea may be very useful. And I saw that other thread. Thanks.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Why is the press lying about Jesse Jackson?
Not a pretty thread, but a place to rant.

[SauronOfMordor]

Jesus was immoral?

The one who whipped the moneychangers from the temple, who said to his apostles "whoever of you has not a sword, sell your cloak and buy one", was not a pacifist in the modern sense.

We have two main flavors of pacifist:

• The ostrich kind, who figures that is he's sufficiently innoffensive, nobody will hurt him
• The undercover opposition kind, like Shaw, who wants his side to disarm because he's really supporting the other side, and hopes it will conquer his side

[KC Burke]

The Republican isolationists in Congress could have accomplished the same thing as the pacifist in the Star Trek episode "City on the Edge of Forever." It was largely because of them that we were woefully unprepared for the war.

Like Havisham, Sowell is one of my constant touchstones for the tradition of Burke and Kirk. That being said, it's unfortunant that Sowell didn't cite the America First crowd, Taft and other conservatives from the 1920-1941 era who were so isolationist that they served as virtual pacifists. Some of the Paeleo-Conservative and Libertarian writers carry on that tradition to this day.

While a majority of conservatives of all stripe condemned the Kosovo campaign, even that wasn't universal. The question is when does the conservative tradition of non-involvement in foriegn wars outside our stategic interests stop and assisting the liberal pacifictic tendancy begin? Even R. Kirk condemned Desert Storm, echoing Burke in asking "going to war over an oil can?" (a position where I differed with Kirk, my other touchstone)

Some, such a Antiwar.com, claim the mantel of libertarianism and cite even our situation now as resorting to war too soon and improperly.

I believe War is the final arm of diplomacy. Discourse between nations starts with words, and in the best of times ends with words and agreements fostering just relations. In the worst of times, war is the answer -- not the problem. It would have been better if Sowell had cited and acknowledged the muddled message of broad conservatism on this issue. It would have made the condemnation of liberal pacifism that much more concrete.

[jimt]

Excellent article by Thomas Sowell, of course, I wouldn't expect anything less. Thanks for the post.

What he says is certainly visible in the events since 9-11. World leaders are definitely getting behind our program, because they know we've got the power and they also know we have the will to use it.

When an American president has 91% approval ratings, after making statements like "...pretty soon they're gonna hear from ALL of us!", the terrorists and dictators have good reason to be quaking in their booties.

[Terriergal]

I've noticed that pacifism is a privilege won by non-pacifism. How ironic.

Just like all these animal rights/environmental nuts who don't realize that if it weren't for them living in such a cushy free society, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[Aric2000]

Why do I always see this, Jesus was a pacifist, give me a break. That is the biggest piece of tripe that I have ever heard. Get a life!!!

[Terriergal]

No, Jesus was just doing a different work at that time. He is not a pacifist.

See this page: Jesus is not a pacifist

Also explains some about why God allows evil (evil= lack of love)

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

I believe War is the final arm of diplomacy. Discourse between nations starts with words, and in the best of times ends with words and agreements fostering just relations. In the worst of times, war is the answer -- not the problem. It would have been better if Sowell had cited and acknowledged the muddled message of broad conservatism on this issue. It would have made the condemnation of liberal pacifism that much more concrete.

Good point. Maybe Dr. Sowell will tackle the subject next week after the need to vent about the Universities and leftist / international busybodies cools. You are very wise. I still want to kick Janet Reno's clymer.

[KC Burke]

Thanks for the kind words.

Jeb will take care of Janet, don't you fret.

[JMJ333]

At a Labor Party rally where Britain was being urged to disarm "as an example to others," economist Roy Harrod asked one of the pacifists: "You think our example will cause Hitler and Mussolini to disarm?"

The reply was: "Oh, Roy, have you lost all your idealism?"

In the flaring parks, in the taverns, in the hushed academies, your murmur will applaud the wisdom of a thousand quacks. For theirs is the kingdom.--Kenneth Fearing