Posted on 09/23/2001 3:34:26 PM PDT by Iowegian
Pope John Paul has issued a dramatic appeal that the world not be allowed to slide into war following attacks on the United States and urged against a deepening of religious divisions.
"With all my heart I beg God to keep the world in peace," the Pope said on Sunday at the end of a mass for some 50,000 people on the first full day of his visit to Kazakhstan, a Central Asian republic which may be caught up in an eventual regional crisis.
"We must not let what happened lead to a deepening of divisions. Religion must never be used as a reason for conflict," he said, referring to tensions with some parts of the Islamic world following the attacks in New York and Washington.(snip)
NEGOTIATIONS, NOT WAR
On arrival in Kazakhstan on Saturday, Pope John Paul said all controversies between nations must be resolved by negotiations and dialogue, not force of arms.
The Pope, who aides say is losing sleep over the possibility of war, celebrated a mass that began with a stiff wind blowing in from Siberia over the flat steppes and ended in sunshine.
Not so. It is a well-known fact that the U.S. and the Vatican have official diplomatic ties and that accordingly the Vatican considers itslef and is considered to be a sovereign state.
If such is not the case, the citizens of the U.S and various jurisdictions therein are entitled to reimbursement for the millions of dollars spent -- appropriately IMO -- for security and other activities related to the many positive and constructive Papal visits to the U.S. which have taken place over the last several decades (reductio ad absurdem).
Given that such is in fact the case, the Pope is entitled to such accomodation as a visiting head of state -- who also "happens" to be the spiritual leader of millions of Americans and undeniably is a godly man who is a force for good throughout the world.
Dan
I'm glad to hear that. I usually find the two most boorish and preachy people to be ex-smokers and ex-Catholics.
I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but I must ask, since you raised it, if you are so happy in your Protestant faith, why did you consider rejoining the Catholic faith up until this thread? Something must be missing for you to have considered a return to the fold.
I must say that I attended Mass shortly after I posted #229, and I was amazed to see how many people took their lunch break to attend. The best thing was the diversity of the congregation. As I looked around, I saw at least 20 different ethnic groups represented. Which is why I see the Catholic Church as the one true Church. You can't fool that many people from such diverse cultures with trickery and chicanery, as has been alleged by others in this thread.
and...
He should go back to screaming against the use of rubbers to make him (and his mysticism) relevant again.
Knowing what a compassionate man JPII is, he'll probably forgive you for those remarks, and will p*ss on you from a great height to give you comfort from the flames of hell. However, like most men, his aim will probably be poor.
Well then tell him to get the hell out of America if he doesn't like it so much!
He he he. I'm not going to read the responses to this article as I'm sure there's tons of really really stupid comments like the one I just posted above. The tragedy of 9/11 really brought the idiots our of the woodwork on this site. It's too bad too. I bet posting mindless three sentance attacks against people with views different then their own is really eating into the time they usually spend chasing their cute cousin around the kitchen table.
"It is certain that, if someone has done great harm to society, and there is a danger that if he remains free he may be able to do it again, you have the right to apply self-defense for the society which you lead, even though the means you may choose may be aggressive."
Regards,
That was a softball if I ever saw one.
Hebrews 13:17 says obey them that have the rule over you.
We are not exempted from that. But we maintain from verses such as Revelations 17:1-6 that Romanism is a fraud anyway. The Pope has no authority over us. NONE. And we Protestants think that a Romanist who is only intimidated by the blustering abuse of verses such as Hebrews 13:17 is actually an unbeliever.
We should approach the Scriptures with fear and trembling, of course. But why don't you tremble before Revelation 17:1-6? Heck, it is OBVIOUSLY talking about ROMANISM.
We think that if today's Romanists really knew the Lord Jesus, they would not be so cowardly in the face of the Pope's pronouncements. The whole thing is a Satanic shell game. And we think you are Satan's victims in the horrific deception.
And oddly enough, the God of predestinarian wrath, the God of Romans 1:18-32, is pleased that it should be so.
***
Like I said in my earlier post, I am not interested in Catholic-bashing. But as a patriot and a Christian, I had to point out that the Pope is a fraud who does not know what he is doing. Now, since you have forced me to go further, I have produced a passage which you can't handle.
Revelation 17:1-6 really is talking about Romanism. My ex-priest friend Richard Bennett always refused to believe that until he became a real Christian.
The whole thing is a shell game. And the fact that there occasional converts from fundamentalism to Romanism means nothing to me. Many "fundamentalists" are no more converted than my dog. Unregenerate people can move to and from Romanism without it meaning anything either way.
But my friend Richard Bennett would point out that Romanists really don't have the Scriptures on their side. They just claim them. That's different. And Revelations 17:1-6 creates monumentally serious problems for you.
We Protestants have plenty of Scriptural arguments rejecting your timeworn claims of apostolic succession under Petrine Supremacy. You just ignore our arguments, because your propaganda system teaches you to ignore them. Then you misapply Hebrews 13:17 to blow foul smoke, expecting it to impress us the way it impresses you. Forget it. We Christians know the Author of the verse. Personally.
As Martin Luther said, "My conscience is captive to the Word of God...HERE I STAND."
A better way to state this is to say that we know the Author rather than the Abuser of the Word. That's different. But the difference is impossible to spot if God is not pleased to reveal it to you.
Again, I think you ought to read Revelations 17:1-6. It it monumentally, even fatally serious for Romanism.
How many times does the Pope have to say that this is a just war for you to get it through your thick skull?
You don't WANT to admit that you were wrong. And, given your leanings, I can understand why.
BTW, your ex-priest friend's website still doesn't work.
Please see my #250. You will notice that I say the whole mess is a God-ordained but Satanically wrought shell game. God is pleased that the Age of the Church also be the Age of the Antichrist.
I do think that the Church of Rome was once a great expression of the true gospel. But we have to go pretty far back, at least as far back as Augustine. Even then, bad doctrine was infiltrating Romanism.
In any case, if Augustine had lived in the time of the Reformation, he would have been a Protestant. This is obvious to anyone who will make an honest study of his soteriology. (It's one of the best-kept secrets of Romanism!)
Regards,
Please see my #250 and following.
You rang, Cletus?
PS-We don't debate creationism because its stupid and nonsensical.
You are certainly accomplishing a great deal for interfaith understanding. But I suppose you know what you are doing (seeing as you've only been a FReeper for a short time). I shall allow you to continue to make your point, which will accomplish more than all the Jack Chick comics and Tony Alamo tracts in the world.
Now tell the truth--your're really Al Sharpton, right? ;-)
But please look again at my #186. I think that the Pope is mealy-mouthed. He has no real unction from God.
Even many RCs have noticed this. Maybe some of them will wake up and leave Romanism. I certainly hope so.
To see what I believe is the real problem, read #250.
During the Civil War there was a great deal of anti-Catholic sentiment in the North, where the Catholic Church was associated with the South and its feudal way of life. In Gone with the Wind, the O'Hara family were Irish Catholics.
Jefferson Davis (the original "Cletus") attended a Catholic parochial school as a boy and actually wanted to convert. After the war Pope Pius IX with his own hands wove a "crown of thorns" and sent it to him as a present and a consolation.
Father Abram Ryan, the militant Confederate (and Southern Catholics were militant Confederates, whereas some Northern bishops were "copperheads") was the "poet of the Confederacy."
The Southern Agrarian movement was very pro-Catholic, and looked on the Catholic Church as a potential bulwark to protect Southern culture and identity.
Walker Percy, Flannery O' Connor, . . . Guich Cook(sp?) from "Carter Country" . . .
And don't forget all dem dayah Cajuns down in Louisiana, I guar-on-tee!
Blast! Now look at what that "Conservative" guy has done! He's manipulated me into defending the Catholic Church from the ugly image he has gone to such great pains to create! The man's (or woman's) an e-vil genius!
NB--The antebellum South was not the Fundamentalist Bible Belt it is today, so do not interpret my "defense" of Catholicism's friendship for the Old South as an endorsement of Catholicism as appropriate for the Bible Belt South of today. Thank you.
Re-read my #187, 249, 250. Then read my #256.
There are things which you aren't getting through your thick skull, I'm afraid.
For the Pope to say that controversies must be resolved by negotiations and dialogue rather than force of arms is about as thoughtful as saying "Fresh air is good for you."
He doesn't get it. He understands nothing of any really profound importance in the spiritual realm. He is PART OF THE PROBLEM, NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION.
Quit being fooled by what one of the other FReepers called JP2's "pious platitudes." It's a shell game. And you are the mark.
Says who?
YOU?
Talk to me about your understanding of spirituality when you lead one billion faithful.
Until then, you look like the bum on the corner with his "The End is Near" sign.
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