Constantinople, USA or How to Defeat a Jihad

self-written ^ | September 22,2001 | Matt Dedinas

[Achilleus66]

The walls of Constantinople were very thick. In 1397 the Turkish Army had all but defeated the forces of the Eastern Roman Empire. At this point all that was left was what was behind the very high walls of the cities. The Turks had not yet perfected the art of artillery, something they did in 1453. It was the cannon which finally did pierce the high walls of the Queen of Cities. It's really too bad the Byzantines didn't come up with a successful defense.

[Achilleus66]

You go Girl! I am still hoping that Florida National Guardsmen will get their chance to go over there and make some martyrs!

[Achilleus66]

bump

[nicollo]

Try out this headline from Nov. 9, 1912 (NYT):

ISLAM IS SUMMONED TO A HOLY WAR;
MIDDLE EUROPE PREPARES TO INTERFERE;
SALONIKA FALLS; MASSACRES BY TURKS

Proclamation of Sheik-Ul-Islam:
"In order that the victory and glory, promised by the Almighty [no mention of virgins], may be granted without delay to the Ottoman Army, it is necessary that the venerable Ulemas organize a Jihad. Such a holy war has, morevoer, become an obligation, if the condition of the Ottoman soliders, who are all heroes, is to be strengthened."

Scared yet?

Now the headlines of Nov. 14, 1912:

"WAR SUSPENDED AFTER TURKEY SUES FOR PEACE"

If the Bulgars could do it...

[Achilleus66]

You got that right, buddy. That's interesting, I'd like to look that up. The 5-day war eh? Hehe. Yeah, we can give them an attitude adjustment, which is what is called for here. The Turks today are a modern people who roll their eyes at such notions as jihad.

[Stat-boy]

In all fairness to the Turks, the Turks did not enter the Middle East until the 11th Century, and the Ottoman Turks did not arrive until a few hundred years later. I do not associate Turkish military aggression with Islam: the Turks were fighting and warlike before they found "religion."

I wonder whether Byzantium would have fallen at all if Constantinople had not been sacked during the fourth "crusade." The year-long siege of Constantinople by Western Europeans devastated the city, left it broke, toppled the government, and destroyed its army and navy. The Eastern empire never recovered.

[Stat-boy]

In all fairness to the Turks, the Turks did not enter the Middle East until the 11th Century, and the Ottoman Turks did not arrive until a few hundred years later. I do not associate Turkish military aggression with Islam: the Turks were fighting and warlike before they found "religion."

I wonder whether Byzantium would have fallen at all if Constantinople had not been sacked during the fourth "crusade." The year-long siege of Constantinople by Western Europeans devastated the city, left it broke, toppled the government, and destroyed its army and navy. The Eastern empire never recovered.

[nicollo]

I don't know much about the 1912 festivities in Turkey, but your post reminded me of those headlines I'd seen while researching U.S. politics from that time. President Taft dispatched a few battleships with marines just in case it got nasty for U.S. interests (mostly missionaries and ammunition salesmen, I gather).

It was an extension of the Balkans war, which started the year before, more or less (as little as these things start at any given moment). The Young Turks had upturned the country around then, as well, which helped produce the emotional climate of the jihad. Either way, Allah didn't produce for 'em. Guess its' time to read up on T.E. Lawrence...

[Achilleus66]

That is true, but what happened just over a generation before the 4th Crusade was what really did the Empire in. In 1176AD, Emperor Manuel agreed to let one of his generals campaign against the Sultanate of Roum. What followed was the Battle of Myriokephallon, which was a disastrous defeat for the Eastern Empire, much worse than Manzikert in 1071AD. Before Myriokephallon, Manuel, and his predecessor, Michael, were launching campaigns into Syria and making the Muslims pay the butcher's bill against the Crusaders. Afterwards, the Empire could barely defend itself. It was the weakness caused by Myriokephallon that turned the avaricious eyes of Venice towards Constantinople. It was the Venetians who bribed the 4th Crusaders to go east instead of south. And yes, the Empire never fully recovered from this. There was a brief time under the Paleologi after 1261AD in which the Empire was respectable again, but that was short lived, as it was devoured by the Ottoman's.

[Achilleus66]

As for the Turks and jihad, no, today they are not a part of that utterly insane mindset. That is because of the post-WWI reforms of Mustafa Kemal, aka Kemal Ataturk. He got rid of Turkey's Sultanate and replaced it with a Republic. He had a version of the Turkish written language made with Roman letters, replacing the Arabic. He wanted Turkey to have a Eyropean economy, not a degenerated Middle Eastern one, so he opened up his country to European business and that is why Turkey is the strongest country of the Middle East today.

Prior to Ataturk's reforms Turkey was totally into things like jihad and spreading the faith by fire and the sword. I, for one, am glad they made the change.

[dfwgator]

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've got a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York
Was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

[cicero's_son]

It seems to me that the real point of this article is that the warriors of Islam never give up.

After a crushing defeat, they retreated into the Arabian heartland for over 700 years only to rise again and ultimately overwhelm the Queen of Cities, Constantinople. If we fail to deal a deadly blow to them now, our great great grandchildren will pay for our negligence and lack of will.

[cicero's_son]

Agreed. And as history teaches us, the warriors of Allah have long memories.

Will some future generation of Americans, 700 years from now, wonder why Americans of today did not act decisively to eliminate this threat? I hope not.

[Abn1508]

The best possible outcome of this war is the vague opportunity to "Attaturk" the entire fundamentalist Islamic world. Won't happen, but it would be the "good fight."

[denydenydeny]

I saw the other day that Turkey, with no oil, now has a per-capita income equal to or higher than than Saudi Arabia's.

[Kryptonite]

Yep. "I don't trust you" never means the same as "I don't trust you anymore."

[mathurine]

In the most recent holy war the divine emperor or Japan got his butt kicked into an ashcan courtesy of a lot of U.S, Marines, many sailors and soldiers, and a couple of well-placed nukes. You couldn't ask for nicer neighbors than the Japanese who didn't get greased.These Islamic holy warriors might take note of the history of the Pacific War. A lot of them are going to be dead right soon here. the ones who are not dead are going to be very agreeable.

[Achilleus66]

Well, for one thing, it was the Turks, not the Arabs who took Constantinople in the end. It was the advent of modern warfare which eventually caused the downfall of the city, ie Turkish cannons.

BTW, I wrote the opinion. I wrote it to show that the fire of jihad can be extinguished. 700 years is a long time. Things will be vastly different, way beyond our ability to comprehend in 2701. You are right though, we do need to eradicate them. A balls-to-the-wall war will give them a much needed attitude adjustment

[Achilleus66]

now, #36, this WAS, in a nutshell, what I was trying to point out.

[Constantine XIII]

bumpity! :o)