New Zealand's support of the US

me | September 19, 2001 | Doug Loss

[Doug Loss]

A few days ago I posted an article from the New Zealand Press in which the NZ Prime Minister Helen Clark was quoted as saying NZ was withdrawing from the ANZUS pact and wouldn't support the US in its time of need. This engendered quite a response, mainly from outraged Americans.

However, I've also heard from Kiwis who said that the newspaper report wasn't accurate, the PM doesn't speak for them, and that the NZ people heartily support the US. Most of the Kiwis were polite in their messages :-), too.

Now that things have cooled down a bit I'd like to thank everyone from NZ who replied for their thoughts. We welcome your support, both moral and material. However, I hope you can soon put your house in order. Your PM is an international embarrassment to you.

[DesDog]

Since it doesn't hinge on which way NZ goes, why get so s**tfaced about it. Even avid supporters of elected governments don't always agree with their policies. New Zealanders are behind the USA all the way and will help in any way it can. We sympathise with all the victims of the recent terrorist attacks but since we aren't there, it is hard to really come to terms with the devastation and loss of innocent lives. America should be grateful (and appears to be) for any support and co-operation it gets - just remember that it isn't a right!! As for our economy being small, what did you expect from a country with 4 million people? And if you don't want our apples, quit buying them. We aren't forcing you to.

[DesDog]

Perhaps that could be all the support America needs from anyone to get rid of him. Our aifrorce could do the job for them on the cheap!

[aculeus]

I emailed a complaint to the NZ embassy and today received the following response:

Thank you for your message below.

If your message of "shame" refers to your views of the horrific events of 11 September in New York and Washington, I agree with you. If, however, you are referring to New Zealand, I strongly disagree with you as New Zealand is one of only two countries that stood with the United States in every major conflict of the 20th century. I regret to say there appears to have been some erroneous and misleading reporting in the New Zealand media of the New Zealand Government's response to those tragic events.

In fact on learning of these events while in Rome, Italy our Prime Minister, Rt Hon Helen Clark, cancelled the remainder of an official visit to Europe which she had just begun and returned immediately to New Zealand.

On her return to New Zealand the Prime Minister made a public statement saying that she had written to President Bush to express New Zealand's revulsion at the terrorist acts committed against the United States. Indeed that was New Zealand's second official message of condolence. Given the world of instantaneous communications in which we live, a number of New Zealanders watched in horror as the events unfolded during the middle of the night in New Zealand with the Acting Prime Minister, Hon Jim Anderton sending a message of condolence to the President at 4.00am New Zealand time.

The Prime Minister also unambiguously expressed New Zealand's support for efforts by the United States and the international community to combat terrorism and to bring to justice the perpetrators of the attacks. To quote the Prime Minister from her 14 September statement; which was headed "New Zealand Pledges support to United States."

"The United States will be considering what responses it needs from friends around the world. We have yet to receive any specific requests, but New Zealand will help in any way we can.

We are passing on that message in the White House.

New Zealand condemns any form of terrorism. The attacks against the United States were attacks against all civilised nations. New Zealand is determined to do its bit."

Asked in Parliament what New Zealand's contribution was likely to be, the Prime Minister indicated that New Zealand was prepared to offer diplomatic support, on-going intelligence support and military support as we can, including, if necessary, the special forces.

In contrast to what you may have read, it is clear that New Zealand stands shoulder to shoulder with the United States in its preparedness to combat the evil of terrorism.

Yours sincerely

Rt Hon James B Bolger ONZ
Ambassador

It appears the 'problem' began in the NZ media.

[aculeus]

A labour strike during a world war? This would've amounted to treason!

I'll jump in here with a quote from Goodbye Darkness by William Manchester (Little Brown 1979). Manchester a WWII marine veteran and a well-known biographer and historian writes on page 167:

Wellington's longshoremen chose this astonishing moment to go on strike. Drenched, sick Marines -- NZ was in the middle of a flu epidemic -- had to load their own ships in eight-hour shifts under dim lights, wrestling with soaked cartons which frequently burst open .... Because of the strike they would have to attack with only ten days of ammunition and, in the words of a divisional order, other 'items actually required to live and fight' "All wharfees is bastards one" Marine wrote on the wall of a dockworkers' toilet.

To be fair the Guadalcanal marines also had problems with US ships manned, again, by union members.

[Helen Rocks!]

No im definitely not a heather

[DB]

Didn't the terms of ANZUS require you to allow our war ships to dock there? By refusing, wasn't it your country telling us to get out? You seem to say it us who kicked you out. It would seem to me it was you who first kicked us out. Can't have it both ways.

[DB]

Why don't you add why we suspended ANZUS? Wasn't kicking our war ships out a violation of ANZUS? Our suspending it was in response to us being kicked out. How can a nation expect us to fight and die in a treaty to protect them when they won't even let us enter port there?

[Helen Rocks!]

Exactly, the problem began with mis-reporting by the Christchurch Press (who have come under criticism from other major NZ newspapers) which has been picked up by people obviously ignorant of Politics in New Zealand, and with what appears to be a grudge against NZ. Former Prime Minister and our current Ambassador to the US Jim Bolger made a our position clear, so one would hope that this will be the end to these unjusified attacks on New Zealand.

[DB]

Well smart ass, what single military attack has the US done against anyone in its "haste" to avenge the WTC attack? Ya, us "cowboys" have been shooting up the world since September 11… You talk the good talk about "thinking first", perhaps you should take your own advice.

[shaggy eel]

,,, then you must be Michael!

[Verbatim]

Damian5, You are apparently quoting one shameful piece of NZ history to rubbish a whole people. If this really did happen I am sure every NZ'er is ahamed but the contribution that NZ has made over the years surely outweighs an act by a small number of people. There have been small numbers of Americans who also have done shameful things in your countries past, yet you want to labour on this point and attack the people of NZ for something that happened almost 60 years ago.

If you want I could begin listing moments of shame from American history.

Re the latest bit of dribble you posted:
In New Zealand, business owners currently do not have the right to:
1. Hire whom they choose
I have been hiring staff in NZ for 15 years and always hire whome I choose.
2. Fire whom they choose
I have unfortunately on occassion had to fire people, never had a problem with this either so long as it was legal.
3. Open for business on whatever day they choose
My company was open 7 days 24hours. There are some restrictions on opening times of licensed premises as there are in most countries.
4. Keep the money they earn
I certainly do.
5. Pay their staff the salary they choose
Again there are minumum salary levels as there are in most countries.
6. Expand their businesses without consent from the State building authorities
If you want to build you need the right permision, I don't know of any civilised country where you can build without authority.
7. Make individual contractual agreements with staff
B**sh*t. All my companies staff are either on individual or collective contracts.
8. Stop unions entering their businesses
If the staff want to be part of a union that is their right.
9. Stop unions accessing private files about their business
A union has very limited access to files. Only HR at the individuals consent.
10. Discriminate against anyone on any basis (eg age, race, culture, sex, appearance)
Correct and proud of it. Is this a problem for you????

[Helen Rocks!]

no not a michael (this is like guess who)

[DB]

Question for you. How would you feel if the US took the same political positions as your country? For example banning all American nuclear weapons and ships here and abroad. What if Australia did the same? Would you feel safer if America and Australia had no nuclear weapons whatsoever? Do you think China and others would stop producing them? Do you think they would "never" use them?

If you answer that you wouldn't feel safer, then why do you expect others to provide a stable world for you to enjoy cost free? Freedom has a cost associated with it. To allow others to provide an umbrella of security is selfish and ultimately self-destructive. Tyrants always come along though out history and exploit/conquer the weak. They only understand force. That force is what keeps us all safe.

[muzza29]

mmm. some little clever clogs has forgotten the no personal attacks rule. I was refering to the movements of troops towards Afghanistan when there was no proof that Afghanistan or bin Laden have involvement . Yes info does point to bin Ladens network but the FBI and CIA have yet to show the world proof. The FBI have just said after all that they may have acted to quickly in naming the suspected hijackers as some of them are still alive and nowhere near the states. They have even gone so far as to say that some may have been using false documents. I wonder how much the US taxpayers forked out for that piece of intelligence work? Listening to George W. Bush now in his address to Congress I find it laughable that he says that the Taliban and other Middle Eastern states fund and give support to terrorists and terrorism. Who trained Osama bin Laden and his "Afghan" supporters (most of whom are from Saudi Arabia and Egypt) in the first place to act against the Soviets in the 70's and 80's. The American government. The propaganda that the US spouts about attacks on freedom and democracy is nothing but pure fiction- it was an attack against the USA itself to show that interference in others wars and support of persecution in the middle East cannot occur without repurcussion. Once again I stress my heart is with the people who are suffering and have suffered because of the terrible actions of these fundamentalists in the United States but open your eyes, USA has not been entirely blameless in its actions in the middle east in the past.

[Mel A]

Oh, please Damian5. I was going to respond to your posting with a rather lengthy reply, but realised that you just don't get it. New Zealand has offered it's support to the United States in the fight against terrorism. The point is, that there are many NZs who don't want to see even more innocent lives lost. The Treaty of Waitangi is a point of contention in NZs culture, true - but are you even aware of what the issue is? Let me fill you in... there were two versions of the Treaty. One in English, one in Maori and there were some major discrepencies between the two. One of the biggest problems revolves around the use of the word 'Rangatiratanga'. As a New Zealander, I am horrified at the sentiments you have expressed, particularly seeing as there seems to have been very little actual fact behind your statements. All I can say to you is : Kei te porangi poaka pakeha. For all open minded Americans, who truly want to see peace in the world, Kia kaha and arohanui.

[muzza29]

why do you feel you know so much about New Zealand law andl policies. As a Maori (no doubt I must be stupid and dont deserve a job, considering your comment that employers should be able to disriminate against people because of race, colour etc), who is on an individual contract in New Zealand perhaps you should check out some facts before you start with your anti-NZ rhetoric. Also who the h*ll are you to say things about the Treaty of Waitangi. Do you even know anything about it or are u mentioning it merely to sound clever?

[muzza29]

kei te pai.

[New Zealander]

Haha - you tell him. I have to say it again, Damian5 is a crackpot. It seems he's right about the watersiders - and it's a real shame such a thing ever happened in New Zealand - but given the rest of his spiel, I wouldn't want to take his word for anything.

He seems to want to live in a country where there is no empoyment protection, no minumum wage, full on discrimination based on, say culture, religion or gender, and no building code. Bugger - think we're painting a picture of Afganastan here...

[muzza29]

agree with you completely on this one. nice to see that we can get a little humour into this highly addictive rant-fest