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The "Pacifists" are coming out of the woodwork
campus bulletin boards ^ | 17 Sept 2001 | unknown juvenile twits

Posted on 09/17/2001 3:16:52 PM PDT by maxwell

Okay, my first question is-- WHO DO THEY THINK THEY'RE KIDDING?! Let me put this into context: this is the text of a flyer that's being posted around the campus where I attend graduate school:

WAR IS TERRORISM

Contact your Congressmen and speak out against unneeded and violent retaliation. The lives of foreign peoples [sic] and US soldiers will not bring back those lost in the recent tragedy in New York.
For more information about US foreign policy and the events that have taken place in the US and abroad, refer to the following websites:
www.indymedia.org
www.zmag.org
www.wtowatch.org
www.globalexchange.org
www.wto.org
www.protest.net
www.slashdot.org
Throughout the 20th Century violence and military might has been used to curb international terrorism. It hasn't worked. We need a new solution for a new century. Let's show that America has learned something from Vietnam, from Libya, from Iraq, from Israel, and Afghanistan.
Above all, don't listen to CNN and the major news networks. They say we are at war. They say that this is the new Pearl Harbor. Inform yourself. Terrorism is not new. Learn from the mistakes of the past.
Keep yourself informed and inform Congress in turn. The only way we can prevent needless violence is through active protest.
[emphasis mine]

I won't even address the appalling sentence structure and composition (and this is one of the better schools... sheesh...)-- that last line gets me. What, d'ya think suicidal religious fanatics are going to pay attention to a few flyers and some nude picketing?! The sheer assininity of kids these days floors me... Didn't bother to check out the links, but I speculate it's more of the same...

So my question to the rest of y'all is, how much anti-war rhetoric have you come across so far?


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To: machman
My son is 12, he understands what is going on, but some of the high school kids sounded like some of the lamebrains you hear on MTV.

Mine is eleven, and he also understands.

It's all our fault,

My son understands that this outrage did not happen in a vacuum.

War is evil, killing inocent people won't solve anything,

A proper Christian upbringing nails that down for us. War is evil and once the dods are unleashed brings on all sorts of unforessable results.

it sounded like they got their talking points straight from some peacenik out fit, but more likely from high school teachers and MTV.

I am glad we do not watch T V much at all. That is full of swap gas. We communicate to our children in conversation. We tell them what they need to know. They ask questions. We talk about it.

What a concept? It is starnge that

81 posted on 09/17/2001 5:13:17 PM PDT by don-o
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To: BunnySlippers
Yes, I'm battling with one now on another board. He's pulling the "What Would Gandhi Do?" schtick complete with Gandhi quotes.

Pull out the "What would Indhira Ghandi do?" quotes... Then hit him with Moses and follow through with Paine and Jefferson.

82 posted on 09/17/2001 5:18:40 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Movemout
Declare martial law (it' DC so that makes it really easy) and announce that all protesters will be arrested and held for the duration. Then let 'em come.
83 posted on 09/17/2001 5:26:42 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: wtc911
"Fitz" is an anglicized version of the French "fils de", meaning son of (fils de Gerald = Fitzgerald, fils de Patrick = Fitzpatrick). It indicates that the person bearing it is decended from the Norman French who conquered Ireland in the 12th century, after conquering England in the 11th. Most people in the Middle Ages did not even have surnames. I'm a little skeptical about the significance you have attributed to it.
84 posted on 09/17/2001 6:18:15 PM PDT by TheMole
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To: madprof98
I know little about Amish or Mennonite pacifists, but as an ex-leftist I have met many Quakers. (Yes, I am aware that Richard Nixon's family had Quaker connections.) Left-wing pressure groups are absolutely ridden with Quakers. They are almost certainly the furthest left religious denomination in America, with the possible exceptions of Unitarians and secularized Jews. The difference with the Quakers is that they have been IMHO a negative influence for over 200 years. Philadelphia Quakers of the 1700s considered the native Indians to be "children of nature" and were more than ready to sacrifice the interests of Scotch-Irish settlers in order to appease them. Bill and Hillary sent Chelsea to the Sidwell Friends Quaker private school. Of course there must be some Quaker descendants today who are patriotic, and hats off to them, but many of their co-religionists have been blaming America first since before the Revolutionary War.
85 posted on 09/17/2001 6:27:54 PM PDT by TheMole
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To: B Knotts
but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution "to correct vices and maintain justice." [St. Thomas Aquinas..

Thank you, this is much easier to accept right now than blanket pacifism.
- there must be serious prospects of success;
- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated

The President and his Cabinet, I believe, understand the seriousness of the decisions they are making, and the consequences, but who among us would ever want to have to make this decision. Maybe Bill Clinton..For Chris Matthews, and anyone who believes that President Bush is lucky for this "photo-op," please think about what you're saying and the weight on his shoulders. This is not a man who would glory in the death of innocent neighbors.

86 posted on 09/17/2001 6:51:20 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: wtc911
My point which you apparently missed is these liberals who are critical of Bush and in favor of the Islamic Jihad, should be given the choice of living here or living in an Islamic country. Either they back Bush now or they don't, if they want the enemy to win, then I think they should just be moved to the enemy side.

As far as my name, you forgot to mention that fitz also represents offspring of a royal father that didn't marry the mother. So I'm anti-abortion and descended from royalty you might say.

87 posted on 09/17/2001 7:17:27 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: TheMole
I always thought "fitz" was illegitimate son of prince_______. I kind of liked the royalty aspect of it. Oh well.
88 posted on 09/17/2001 7:20:42 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: maxwell
I get this software programming email from a guy named Dave Winer, a software developer in CA who has some neat ideas and always has something interesting to check out. But last week he started to spam me with all this whiny, musty 60's-era jello-brain nonsense full of logical holes you could drive Ethel Merman through.

It's pathetic. Check out his weblog to see what an old pu**y looks and sounds like.

89 posted on 09/17/2001 7:27:12 PM PDT by Benrand
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To: wtc911
The pacifists don't even want us to defend our own country from Islamic takeover. They would have us admit that it was all our fault and we were being taught a little lesson, but they wish to ignore that they attempted to kill our president, our congress, cripple our economy, destroy our defense and military in the Pentagon, disable major transportation hubs....that was all just day 1. There is no reason to believe that after completing bringing down this country, they would have then allowed us to rebuild in peace. They intended to take charge. So if there's enough pacifists who don't believe saving our country is a worthy cause, then I'd suggest we put them all in a state or two and give them to Bin Laden. If they ever decide, then they could attempt to save themselves but without our help.
90 posted on 09/17/2001 7:27:27 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Benrand
Whoops...
91 posted on 09/17/2001 7:33:17 PM PDT by Benrand
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To: wtc911
Bravo, wtc. I was ready to fire off a similar missive, but you put it more eloquently than I ever could. I am always puzzled by the misconceptions of Catholicism here on FR.
92 posted on 09/17/2001 7:35:28 PM PDT by Jhensy
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To: jrherreid
Yes so. Either communists themselves, or useful idiots being used by communists. Either way, they are supporting communism in the USA.
93 posted on 09/17/2001 9:33:06 PM PDT by Critter
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To: All
I just posted an article on identification of the enemy this past Friday on FR. I mention the pacifists and a few other people and ideas. Read on.

In the aftermath of these most recent terrorist strikes, it is becoming increasingly important to identify the enemy. This is what President Bush was referring to when he indicated that we were facing a "different kind of enemy." The enemy is no longer a readily identifiable nation or set of leaders within a nation, but has spread like yeast in dough throughout the world. The enemy includes not only obvious groups of individuals, but various wrong ideas that are being exalted as ideals by "friend" and foe alike. Here's my cut at the enemies we face with regard to terrorism.

Enemies who are people:

1) Those that would engage in violence against our country and people, i.e. terrorists.
2) Those that would aid and abet those who would engage in violence against our country and people, i.e. foreign governments, wealthy idealists, family and friends of terrorists.
3) Those that would export weapons and other technologies that can be used to generate violence or support those who propagate violence against our country or people, i.e. businessmen.
4) Those that would make it easier through regulation or lack of enforcement to export weapons and other technologies that can be used to generate violence or support those who propagate violence against our country or people, i.e. business, government, security, and law enforcement agencies.
5) Those that would seek or promote diplomatic agreements for the sake of diplomacy without achieving true security for our people, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
6) Those that would seek or promote a judicial solution for the sake of political correctness without reasonable expectation of obtaining true justice or future security for our people, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
7) Those that would seek or promote peace at any cost, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
8) Those leaders who are not willing to accept the possibility for civilian or military casualties to exact justice on our enemies, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
9) Those leaders who are not willing to temporarily sacrifice some personal freedoms, rights, conveniences, or sacrifice individual people for the increased security of all, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.

Ideological Enemies:

1) Radical Islam or any other faith or cause that promotes holy war or jihad against the US.
2) There is a judicial solution for every crime.
3) Tolerance is more important than truth.
4) All nations or people groups will play fair if given a chance.
5) All nations or people groups are capable of governing themselves.
6) The US must never occupy a country even though the indigenous people have demonstrated that they cannot govern those within their borders.
7) Innocent people must never be killed by the US military.
8) Nothing more than a measured response can be initiated against our enemies.
9) Preemptive strikes on our enemies are not appropriate.
10) The people have the right to know everything that we are doing militarily at any time.
11) The government cannot sacrifice any individuals or any individual rights for the security of the nation. (This is the scary one and hopefully only temporary)

The freedom we now enjoy hangs in the balance if we are not able to respond appropriately to these enemies. This grand experiment as an open society is going to be severely tested by these events and our response to them. God bless all of our leaders with the wisdom and discernment necessary to deal with the current crisis through thoughtful decisions. The ramifications of their decisions will be felt throughout the remainder of history.

94 posted on 09/17/2001 9:41:11 PM PDT by Rockitz
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To: maxwell
So my question to the rest of y'all is, how much anti-war rhetoric have you come across so far?

This is what happened to me :(

95 posted on 09/17/2001 9:44:41 PM PDT by Hawkeye's Girl
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To: Rockitz
A healthy dose of reality (people jumping out of the top floors of the World Trade Center)should continue to be displayed on the Fox News channel (if no where else).

The liberal propagandists are very good at undermining the war effort.

Every attempt must be made to counter this.

96 posted on 09/17/2001 9:48:19 PM PDT by Rome2000
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To: Critter
Yes so. Either communists themselves, or useful idiots being used by communists. Either way, they are supporting communism in the USA.

Plenty of communists (actually, probably a majority) are war-mongering types, out to overthrow capitalism by force. Occasionally I see communist types who believe that violence is always immoral, but the majority think that violence is the only way to root out class structure and rebuild society in the Marxist order.

A lot of pacifists are young, inexperienced idealists, or else they are convinced radicals. They also have a number of cowards who would just rather save their own skins. If you've ever read of the Hutterite and Mennonite Americans who refused to bear arms (on religious grounds) in previous wars, you must know that some pacifists are not cowards.

And, for the record, I'm not a pacifist.

97 posted on 09/17/2001 9:56:43 PM PDT by jrherreid
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To: madprof98
I'm not a Christian, and you havn't refuted my points. Even sincere pacifists have embraced and evil philosophy, even if their motives are sincere.
98 posted on 09/17/2001 10:19:52 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: maxwell


99 posted on 09/17/2001 10:23:54 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: maxwell
These aren't "pacifists", they are simply cowards.
100 posted on 09/17/2001 10:24:27 PM PDT by mgstarr
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