Russia: No NATO strike from CIS

MSNBC | 9/14

[wonders]

Ref your #18: Sadly enough for our armed forces, I suspect you are right in your analysis.

[tbeatty]

There is one HUGE difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan. In Vietnam we were trying to prop up an unpopular government. In Afghanistan we don't care what government we leave behind. If vietnam were considered a search and destroy mission it was a huge success.

[Minnesota Lady]

I have always heard the same about fighting in Afghanistan.. and Osama plus know the terrain stone by stone...

[wonders]

Ref your #17: ROFL! You have a keen wit! On a more sober and sombre note, these things are pretty ghastly up close in terms of what they do to human beings (shiver shudder).

[HiTech RedNeck]

We do not have weapons designed to work in very steep mountains with very narrow valleys.

Equip our smartbombs with cyber ears to listen for human breathing.

[MississippiMan]

Bottom line: all the talk about standing with us was just that, TALK. When all is said and done, the only ones truly standing with us will be Britain, as is always the case.

[wonders]

Ref your #15: Hello? Anybody home? What is this pie-in-the-sky we-are-the-world stuff? A very nice fairy tale, but it sadly and certainly won't come true.

Sure, you'd like to see the "Northern Alliance" do the "ground work" (translation: take the casualties) -- but the Russians have already been there, done that, and there's no way they're going into the killing fields as a proxy army for the USA pilots who sit safely at 30k -- especially as it was the USA who trained and armed bin Laden (including Stingers) against them in the first place. And let's not forget the Russians also did most of the dying in the WWII European Theatre (at the hands of the Nazis whom you have discounted as not being so bad in previous posts).

The Christian communities you speak of in East Timor, Northern Afghanistan, Lebanon, southern Sudan, Nigeria, etc., are battered minority remnants, not capable of much, and sadly, having received little help from Uncle Sam and Co. The Phillipines are a different story, as Christians are the vast majority there.

(Quiz question: how many $ has USA contributed to Afghanistan during the past two years? Is it more or less than the beleaguered minority Christian communities on your list combined? You get bonus points for quiz question #2!)

Finally, what do you mean by "we" as you are a Slovene-Austrian, not an American?

I don't mean to offend. I am very glad you are on our side. Peace, wonders

[wonders]

Ref your #16: Hello? Aghanistan is the Russians' puppet? Hello, hello? Check the amount of $ recently donated by the USA to the Taliban gov. vs. by the Russian gov.

Also, who armed and trained bin Laden against the Russians? Can you say U-S-A?

Now tell me who has what puppet? (Of course puppets do have this annoying habit of snipping their strings and attacking their former puppeteers.)

[paul544]

So what everyone is saying is that Aghanistan could kick our ass?

Does anyone really think that this will be a land war? Don't know.

[wonders]

Ref your #19: Yes, you are right on about the "fog of war."

The only hope is intelligence. Knowing exactly where bin Laden is and going in with a small tactical force.

A ground war in that country is sheer madness. Check a terrain map. Check out the surrounding countries and their sympathies.

These people who believe in some sort of video game war are... well, living in a video game.

[wonders]

Hi paul :)

Ref your #29, No worries. Please see my #30.

[paul544]

Makes sense, but isn't it an option to simply cut them off? Either voluntarily by Pakistan or by physically cutting off their supply lines? They produce none of their own wepons, none of their own fuel and very little of their own food. I don't know, just upsets me to think we could be cowed by some $hithole with more goats than people. I say we truly bolster the Anti-Taliban forces and let them help us. They know the terrain as well as the Taliban.

[tm22721]

I believe that the nukes going off on the evening of July 4th would look splendid on CNN with Amanpour.

BUMP

[JasonC]

You don't seem to know too much about (1) what tac nukes actually do nor (2) what the terrain is like in central Afghanistan. If you put a tac nuke 5 miles from a target on an open plain it wouldn't do anything to that target - that is one. If you draw a circle with a radius of 5 miles in central Afghanistan around a random point on the ground, there will be peaks 5000 feet above the level of your point between you and the target i.e. -cubic miles- of solid rock. Oh, and the Afghans have only been tunneling safe locations out of the rock for about 22 years, to avoid air surveillence and attack.

Elaborate firepower is not what the terrain is suited for. It rewards skilled infantry warfare, especially by stealth. You are more likely to get a particular man by stalking him for a month with half a dozen four man teams with sniper rifles and advanced vision gear, than with all the air power you'd care to waste.

[wonders]

Ref your #32: How do you cut them off? Take a look at a map and tell me how. Enact all the sanctions you want, and stuff will get through, especially considering the sympathies of bordering countries. Sanctions never worked anywhere, anyway.

Unfortunately, the opposition forces in Afghanistan are in sad shape: see this FR thread .

It's not a matter of being cowed, no worries. It's a matter of lining up the right intelligence, applying the right pressure in the right places.

[duckln]

Please be objective. History shows,

Carter dropped us out of the Olympics when Russia invaded Afganistan. Sadly, my misinformed hero Reagan, gave Stingers and guns to the Afgans assuring their Russias defeat. Then Clinton blasted Russia for their defense of Chechna and fight against radical Muslims. Then they blasted Serbia for its effords to police their territory of Kosovo to rid it of the same radicals, and imprison Russia's ally Milosovic.

Bush has to back out of the bad Balkan policy of the late democrats. My point is, you have to be a friend in order to have a friend to stand by you. And I think Bush is on the right track in his recent public approval of Putin as a friend during the last summit of 7.

[wonders]

Ref your #34: Yup!

[JasonC]

The sparse population is easily maintained by their scant domestic production. They get supplies from the south and Pakistan, from the west and Iran, and from the north and the central Asian republics, many of which have their own armed resistence groups in the field. They pay for imports with aid from Pakistan - which can indeed be cut - and by growing poppies, processed into heroin. Also some exports of handcrafts like rugs.

When the Russians fought them, they drove a quarter of the population over the borders to Pakistan and Iran, into refugee camps. They killed or wounded another quarter of the population, including carpeting bombing mere villages, large scale use of heavy armor and artillery, plus literally millions of land mines, many of which are still there. So are the Afghans.

[ChaseR]

"It is especially suited to urban warfare because the shock wave can penetrate underground bunkers and shelters."

And if that doesn't work....and to save our cities from further attack - I'd say it's time for our pal....Mr Neutron.
(Let's ask up our specialist, Poohbah. I'm sure he can give us some good insight!)
Poohbah, give us your take on what should be done if terrorist are hiding in mountains. Thanks.

[wonders]

Ref your #39: I was not saying these would be effective in this circumstance, I was merely answering Husker24's question in his post #8. I'd like to hear Poohbah's assessment, regardless, though :)