What Possible Defense is There?

Self - SES1066 | 09/12/01 | SES1066

[SES1066]

I can make a simple flat statement here:
"You cannot make any motorized passenger travel completely safe from suicide-minded terrorists!"
These WTC Terrorists used knives, shaving supplies and box-cutters to attack/kill the stewardists in order to force the pilots to exit and defend THEIR PEOPLE! Can anybody think of any other action, under the known circumstances at that time, that the pilots would have done?

All Terrorists have the ability to strike at the time and place of THEIR choice and advantage. When they have no concern about their future survival, they have an almost complete freedom of action. Their sponsors want to force us to fear them and to worry about their future actions. IF, it is shown to be the work of Islamic Fundumentalists, NOT YET PROVEN, it is an effort to attack and destroy Western Civilization and its technology and democracy.

So we face a dilemma, our own freedom to use technology, transportation and democracy that form the backbone of our civilization, versus the Terrorists ability to attack us at the time and place of their choosing! We will now be facing stringent boarding procedures at the airports, probably increasing the already strangled process by multiple hours for individual travelers. This is a Terrorist Tax that will impact everyone and the cost will increase as it causes other businesses to pass on their increases. There are going to be new rules about pocket knoves and box cutters on airliners and so there goes another small bit of our freedoms - JUST WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT!

THE QUESTION IS - Will this make us safer? There are numerous manuals on how to make deadly weapons out of innocuous household items. A clothes hanger can become a weapon and so does that mean that they will be forbidden on airplanes? The next attack could come from a hijacked Greyhound Bus, loaded with explosives, driven at an unguarded target like the Harvard Library or St.Patrick's Cathedral! These are attacks on our civilization, we are at war, and so we should steel ourselves against these attacks and NOT let us do these Terrorists job for them by slicing up our liberties for an extra sense of little security!
Ben Franklin said, "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety!"

[SES1066]

Am I out of line here or do you know of any way to force increased safety without decrementing our liberties?

[BurkeanCyclist]

Am I out of line here or do you know of any way to force increased safety without decrementing our liberties?

I think cutting off access between the cockpit and the passenger cabins is a good idea. Also we should perhaps return to having armed Sky Marshals on flights.

Then, of course, we should start killing known terrorists and their sponsors without waiting to pin a specific incident on them. We should also try non-citizen accomplices captured in this country before military tribunals, not in civilian courts.

[AppyPappy]

Screw defense. We need offense. Arm the pilots.

[SES1066]

As a further warning on the danger to our long-term liberty in seeking short-term safety - Here is a link to a previous Freep Posting by Paul Weyrich

[Procyon]

Yes. In the early sixties, after a Bonanza Air Lines plans was brought down by someone entering the cockpit and killing the pilots, Bonanza armed it's pilots.

[Deep_6]

re:

"..Am I out of line here or do you know of any way to
force increased safety without decrementing our
liberties?..."

Work with the freedoms we have.

Do not require government intervention and involvement
into security related matters of private industry or
public transportation.

All aircraft and major-mode transportation workers
should be armed and trained with/for the arms they
should be compelled to carry. The public should demand
that from the carriers, not the government.

The right of an airline or major-mode transportation
company, to inspect baggage and persons for metallic
objects [and demand confiscation of same], should not
be thwarted by false assumption that they are
impeaching a freedom of an individual.

I cannot enter a courthouse without turning over a
small penknife at the door. It is not my inherent
"right" to carry that within that building. There are
armed guards within that building and I am not required
to enter; I have the choice not to.

Why should I be alarmed at being required to do the
same when entering an aircraft?


To quote from:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b9f417a79b4.htm

"..Too, too many voices are shouting for the trading

away our precious freedoms for the illusion of security...

[LouD]

Right concept - Wrong execution. (Although I agree with arming the pilots)

We need to proactively eliminate terrorist organizations which state their intention to harm the U.S. or which actually attack the U.S. or our citizens. We must do this without regard for the territorial integrity of countries wittingly or unwittingly harboring such groups.

In short, we must give our intelligence community the ability to attack terrorist targets, wherever they are, and assassinate terrorist leaders.

[Jim Noble]

The same defense that we have against young Japanese pilots crashing into our fleet units.

We must either withdraw behind the oceans OR war upon the nations arrayed against us, rain destruction on their people until their will to resist is broken, try their leaders, and reorganize them under our suzeranity.

There is no middle option, although I am sure our politicians will be frantically searching for one.

[wretchard]

There is no guarantee the United States can win this war, because our opponents have the cloak of invisibility, or at least, the ability to immerse themselves in the middle eastern sea of civilians. We must either devise a way to pick them out from the crowd, or destroy the sea of civilians in the bargain. It may even be that the entire mass of civilians is fundamentally hostile.

Having said that, the United States has no alternative but to fight -- with any and all means available, whether victorious or not. It will take years and will cause such a degree of deprivation and pain among us that future generations, if any live, will say, "how did they bear it".

Many precious things will be destroyed in the coming struggle. Places we knew. People we loved. Things we had. Things we used to do. Yet this is our destiny and burden. On with the fight. God bless America.

[A+Bert (Outta here)]

General Swartzkopf on NBC and appealing to reason.

[Jim Noble]

>>We must either devise a way to pick them out from the crowd, or destroy the sea of civilians in the bargain. It may even be that the entire mass of civilians is fundamentally hostile<<

Yes, they are hostile. So were the Japanese and the Germans.

We didn't have to kill all of them, and we don't have to kill all of the Moslems, either.

What we do have to do is to break their will to resist, and impose new government on them. That is not impossible, if we have the will.

Thirty years of Barney and Mr. Rogers, thirty years of getting the "news" from Katie and Matt, may have taken their toll, however.

If we lack the will, we should abandon Israel and get all of our people home ASAP. A few will still be willing to defend CONUS, where we will have some fortress advantages.

Either way, the world of yesterday at 8AM is gone forever.

[Theophilus]

mount phalanx batteries on each quadrant of tall buildings

[jwalsh07]

Preventive maintenance amigo.

[Freedom56v2]

Armed pilots and sky marshalls--good idea.

No "24-48-96 Hour Notice to give up Bin Laden" garbage--Afghani's are harboring anti-US terrorists--

Shore up our borders--Stop letting in foreigners from these enemy nations

[miner89]

The way to make us safer is to kill the terrorists. The misconception is that since there are suicide terrorists, we can't stop them. This is not true. The suicide terrorists are organized and sent on their missions by terrorists who do not want to die. If we kill the head, there will be no one to organize the ones crazy enough to do this stuff.

[maestro]

Cut off their access to all 'drug' and 'oil' monies.
Just say,"No"!

[Sid Rich]

Bingo. The harder we make it on them to settle anywhere, the more of them we kill, the safer we are. We can't ever be 100% safe, but we can certainly improve our chances.

[wasp69]

It has always been my observation that the best defense is a good, and overwhelming, offense. Take that for what it's worth.