I Urge An End To Calls For Retaliation Against "Islam"

Self | September 11, 2001 | Self

[Storm Orphan]

Sound fair enough?

Sound simple-minded enough.

I take it you are the author.

[sinkspur]

A challenge to Muslim leaders: announce that bin Laden is an infidel, and renounce the death penalty for apostacy

Exactly.

The "fatwa" is the ultimate condemnation on an infidel or apostate.

These clowns will call for fatwas against an author (Salman Rushdie) but they mouth obscure bullshit when it comes to a man who has declared war on western culture.

Are you for us or against us?

It's time to smoke out the defenders of freedom.

[Publius6961]

Sound simple-minded enough.
I take it you are the author.

Modesty does not become you.
You are the author.

I just put meat on the patethic bones of a fairy tale you wove for us.

Care to respond to the heart of the problem? How do we identify and excise the 1% that you identified as the subhuman animal killers?

[Bobby777]

Thanks for sharing your touchie-feelie hand-wringing with us...

bullseye ... I'm dealing with a disruptor here http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba42fb0663a.htm

[rbmillerjr]

Among Muslim Clerics Differing interpretations of Islamic law pit 'official' leaders opposed to bombings against 'popular' leaders in favor of them. By Hamza Hendawi GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP)--Nafez Saleh al-Nazar appeared nervous as he faced the camera to read a prepared statement and chant Islamic verses. At times he seemed to pause too long. At times he gazed at the camera. And no wonder: The 26-year-old Palestinian father of two was taping an announcement that he was going to die. Al-Nazar, a member of the Islamic militant group Hamas, drove a truck laden with explosives toward an Israeli army post in the Gaza Strip on July 9. In a video released by Hamas, the vehicle evaporates in a huge explosion before it reaches the army post, killing al-Nazar but harming no one else. Palestinian suicide bombings were first carried out against Israel in 1994. The past 10 months of fighting has seen 15 suicide bombings in which more than 30 Israeli civilians have been killed. In the last major attack, 22 young people, including the bomber, were killed outside a Tel Aviv disco on June 1. As the Israeli-Palestinian conflict drags on, Muslim clerics and commentators from across the Arab world and beyond have begun debating the tactic. The issue has highlighted the distinction between so-called ``official'' Islam--which has tended to support negotiations with Israel--and a ``popular'' Islam that does not have government support, opposes peacemaking, calls for Israel's destruction and views every Israeli man, woman and child as a legitimate target. The debate began when the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdulaziz al-Sheik, declared in April that ``any act of self killing or suicide is strictly forbidden in Islam'' and consequently ``the one who blows himself up in the midst of the enemies is also performing an act contrary to Islamic teachings.'' Suicide bombers, the theologian added, should not be buried with Islamic rituals and should not be buried alongside other Muslims. Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, grand imam of Egypt's Al-Azhar mosque, mainstream Islam's top seat of learning, then issued an opinion saying the bombings were legitimate, but only if directed against Israeli soldiers, not women and children. The edicts of al-Sheik and Tantawi--who are government appointees but are considered to be Sunni Islam's top theologians--came as the mainly Muslim Arab world was seething over what it regards as Israel's excessive use of force against the Palestinians. Many other clerics issued opposing points of view. Sheik Youssef al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian clergyman highly respected among the world's 1.2 billion Muslims, said the rulings against suicide bombings were issued by ``people who are alien to Sharia (Islamic laws) and religion.'' He was joined by Sheik Ikrema Sabri, Jerusalem's top Muslim cleric. ``The issue is decided,'' Sabri said in an interview. ``Muslims believe in the Day of Judgment and that dying as a martyr has its reward--going to heaven--and that a martyr is alive in the eyes of God.'' Both sides cite verses from the Muslim holy book, the Quran, and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad to support their argument. On one hand are quotes from Muhammad about sparing women, children and the elderly in battle. But on the other there is the idea of ``an eye for an eye'' which appears in Quranic verse. Another popular quotation from the Quran tells Muslims that God provides immortality in paradise if they die fighting for him. The debate has attracted interest in Israel, where the bombings pose a security nightmare and are a heavily demoralizing influence. In justifying Israel's recent targeted killings of leading Hamas activists, Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres said this week the use of suicide bombers ``is against the teachings of all three religions.'' Some say the question of religious teachings is almost irrelevant considering the public support for the bombings. Funerals of suicide bombing ``martyrs'' attract thousands in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and, like those given to Palestinians killed by the Israelis, invariably turn into vociferously anti-Israeli rallies. Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the two radical Palestinian groups that have carried out multiple suicide bombings, said they have no shortage of eager volunteers. Many, but not all, are young, unemployed, single men who face a bleak future and may be tempted by what many Palestinians regard as a heroic death. Support for suicide bombings has increased from less than 25% a year ago to about 7%, said Palestinian political analyst and pollster Ghassan Khatib. ``How Palestinians feel about the suicide attacks has nothing to do with religion or ideology,'' he said. ``Only political considerations are relevant here.'' Perhaps conceding something to politics, however, even Hamas leaders suggest there is a limit to who they would target. ``In our view, there is not a single person in Israel whom we don't view as a usurper of our land,'' insisted Ismail Abu Shanab, a Gaza-based Hamas leader. But when asked if they would target an Israeli kindergarten, for example, he was evasive. ``Did we do it?'' he said. ``The answer is no.'' B&

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

Not necessarily from the perspective of human rights, but because of strategic considerations, I agree with you.

I am convinced that the attack on the WTC was intended to create such massive international hostility towards Moslems that even secularised ones and the comparatively tolerant Sunni branch would be forced willy-nilly into throwing their support to the Taliban types.

Could it be that Osama et al. are worried that their influence throughout the Islamic world is declining?

So far, despite the calls by enraged Freepers for an Islamic nuclear winter, the government and American population are responding to Tuesday's attacks with an almost eerie calmness and deliberateness. There is no rioting in the streets, and American Moslems have not been subjected to a Kristallnacht. Our response is probably driving the conspirators nuts because, aside from some freelance street demonstrations by the usual suspects, virtually all Islamic governments, and not a few Moslem clerics, have expressed their outrage. Since everybody knows that Osama & Co. are responsible, the latter can rightly construe this as a wholesale repudiation of their agenda.

And this is a good thing, because I think a substantial portion of the Islamic world is scared to death of their fundamentalists, and progressive elements would like to see the Sharia disappear into the history books. I imagine that many of our Moslem naturalised citizens are actually refugees from fundamentalist lunacy (e.g., supporters of the Iranian Shah), and to accuse them of complicity in the WTC attack is logically insupportable.

Militant fundamentalist Islam must be eradicated, down to the last man, woman, and child. ("Nits breed lice") Sharia must be suspended once and for all, even in the lands of our "friends" (e.g., Saudi Arabia) because it creates a climate in which people like Osama are indoctrinated. Such a program would, I believe, meet with the support of the majority of the Moslem world.

[Torie]

The content of your thought collapses from the weight of trying to do too much in too few words with too many metaphors which do not readily cohere to paint a recognizable picture. Perhaps it is more an expression of modern art.

[185JHP]

A good distinction - we're not talking about vigilantism, we're talking about a warlike attack which legitimately calls for a warlike response. By our government - not we FR faithful. It's not "hate your local Moslems" time. That said, sometimes grouping is appropriate - like people who are in fact and in truth, "murderers." The WTC attacks were amazing - they make Militant Islamists the human filth of the world. Much more vile than Pearl Harbor - designed and planned, not just to destroy the Towers, but to kill as many people as possible!

[Bobby777]

Are you for us or against us?

It's time to smoke out the defenders of freedom.

bingo sinkspur ... I'm with ya on this one ... and it seems pretty obvious doesn't it?

[Storm Orphan]

You will rely on people wearing uniforms you have disdained to wear.

They will seek out the one's responsible, apathetic to your religious biases.

[Blade]

I've learned a lot about how thin the veneer of Constitutionalism is around here when the mob gets stirred up

So anyone who disagrees with you is part of an irrational mob. What non-sense. You should be ashamed for making such a statement.

[aposiopetic]

You got it.

[sinkspur]

Actually, it's time to smoke out the enemies of freedom.

But, we'll go through smoke, if necessary, won't we?

[Storm Orphan]

So anyone who disagrees with you is part of an irrational mob.

No, anyone who calls for mob justice on an entire race, creed or faith rather than focusing
on the guilty is part of an irrational mob.

[Leroy S. Mort]

So anyone who disagrees with you is part of an irrational mob. What non-sense. You should be ashamed for making such a statement.

I didn't use "irrational" ...you did. But thanks for adding it. And if you disagree with Constitutionalism, it is you who should be ashamed.

[independentmind]

Could it be that Osama et al. are worried that their influence throughout the Islamic world is declining?

Or could it be that another country outside the Islamic world would want us to think this?

[Anonymous2]

well said.