Posted on 09/09/2001 2:45:55 PM PDT by Snardius
Spokane, WA
Doctrine divides Presbyterians Manito congregation to vote on severing ties with church
Members of Manito Presbyterian Church will decide this weekend whether they still want to be Presbyterians.
The pastors and the elders of the church have recommended that the congregation drop its affiliation with the Presbyterian Church (USA), saying, "the theological state of our denomination has deteriorated over the past 25 years."
Many members of the Manito congregation differ with the national denomination over how to interpret scripture, including the acceptance of homosexual relationships.
If they follow the recommendation, the congregation will become the first to leave the Presbyterian Church since its founding in 1983. They'll also be changing the very nature of their congregation -- going from a mainline Protestant denomination to an independent evangelical church with no national ties. It's unclear where a new congregation might meet, because the current building is owned by the Presbyterian Church.
For many in the Manito congregation, the change would not be much of a leap, said one elder who asked not to be identified. The church has featured evangelical-style worship for years, including a band and a drama team. And many of its members are new to the Presbyterian denomination.
But as discussions of the move to break ties with the larger church progressed this summer, the elder said it was clear that some members are voting with exuberance, some with sorrow and some will choose to be left behind by the congregation.
"For some of the people here, not a lot, the Presbyterian Church is an extended family," the elder said. "And the consequences of doing this would be the same as cutting off ties to your own family."
The two biggest theological issues for Manito's leadership are the means of salvation and the method of interpreting scripture.
The pastors and elders at Manito Presbyterian, 401 E. 30th, teach that belief in Jesus as the son of God is the only way to achieve salvation. The Presbyterian Church in June released a statement saying Jesus is the only way to salvation for Christians, leaving open the possibility for other means of salvation for non-Christians.
Also controversial for the Manito congregation is the discussion among Presbyterians about how to interpret the Bible -- which has surfaced most recently when it comes to determining whether gays and lesbians should be ordained as ministers or granted a blessing similar to a marriage ceremony. Those talks are misguided, the pastors at Manito say.
They believe the Bible is the "unerring word of God," and clearly states that homosexual behavior is a sin.
Most of the leaders at the church refused to discuss the vote. The Rev. Doug Waggoner, senior pastor, confirmed the vote was taking place this weekend during services and said he would discuss the results next week. In his most recent monthly newsletter, Waggoner encouraged every member of the congregation to vote. "We are in an exciting time as a church," Waggoner wrote. "God is seeking to reveal the future He has in store for us."
If the congregation agrees to sever ties, Waggoner and his associate, the Rev. Galen Doughty, will renounce their ordinations as Presbyterian ministers and declare the new Manito Church an independent congregation.
It is the first time an entire congregation has tried to leave the Presbyterian Church since the denomination was formed in 1983 by the merger of two smaller denominations, said Jerry Van Marter, director of the Presbyterian News Service in Louisville, Ky.
It could be the beginning of a long-predicted split in the Presbyterian denomination of 2.5 million members. A survey of Presbyterian clergy earlier this year found that 73 percent of them believe that a large portion of the denomination will split into a separate organization within the next 50 years.
A movement to return the Presbyterian Church to a more orthodox theology, called the Confessing Church, claims the membership of more than 800 American congregations -- 11 percent of the denomination. But the Confessing Church Movement advocates changing the Presbyterian Church, not leaving it, yet.
One of the movement's founders, the Rev. Jack Haberer of Clear Lake Presbyterian Church in Houston, said his goal is unity, not schism. "Some outspoken Confessing Church pastors are promoting schism, which is producing a credibility gap for the Confessing Church Movement," he said in an interview published Friday by the Presbyterian News Service. "They really need to come together around a vision for unity of evangelicalism."
Although the Manito congregation agrees with the spirit of the movement, it never joined. In a pamphlet summarizing their recommendations, church elders said they decided not to stay and work toward reforming the denomination, "because it has become increasingly clear to us and many others within the PC(USA) that this denomination is not going to reform."
Waggoner said he feels God is calling the congregation to invest its resources in Spokane rather than the national denomination. Among American Christian denominations, Presbyterians are among the most torn over Biblical interpretation, when it comes to determining whether gay people should be ordained as clergy or permitted to receive special blessings or commitment ceremonies.
Evangelical Lutherans, Episcopalians and United Methodists are also struggling with the same issues. If the pastors and the congregation renounce their ties with the Presbyterian Church, Rick Melin, executive director of the local Presbytery, is expected to appoint an interim pastor and continue to support a traditional Presbyterian congregation in the building.
A pamphlet distributed by the pastors at Manito concedes, "The constitution of our church is clear, Manito holds all property in trust for the denomination." Still, elders at Manito said that if the vote is unanimous, they hope to negotiate with the Presbytery.
But sources within the Presbytery said the larger church is unlikely to let go of the property and will instead devote the resources necessary to perpetuate Manito Presbyterian as a church.
Waggoner came to Manito as the head pastor in 1988. Under his leadership the church has grown. It has about 600 official members and perhaps just as many unofficial members -- people who attend the church but have never signed up as members.
Only official members will be allowed to vote, said executive pastor George Comstock. "We will be checking the ballots against the membership registry," Comstock said.
The church is famous for its enormous vacation Bible school, which this year attracted more than 1,000 children. A private, Christian school is run out of the church. It is a pre-school and kindergarten that this year added a first grade.
Although Manito leaders have said they are hoping to negotiate for access to the property, they said they have a confidential backup plan to worship at another location if the Inland Northwest Presbytery denies that request.
Otherwise you can find yourself held handmaiden to the Whore of Babylon.
I don't even know where to begin. According to the PC(USA) there was no reason for the apostles to bother listening to the Lord because they were just as well off ignoring him and finding salvation elsewhere.
My previously unaffiliated church in CT recently joined the Presbyterian Chruch in America. I highly recccomend it.
Just remember folks, the church is NOT the building but the believers gathered together to worship. The liberal Presbyterian denomination can have and keep the building. It is all going to burn anyway and we can meet in another building, or no building at all (like the church within the Soviet Union did for nearly 70 years) if it comes to that.
"I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold, I'd rather have Jesus than riches untold. I'd rather have Jesus than anything this world affords today"... that includes buildings!
God bless you, hang tough and remain focused on Our Lord Jesus Christ and faithful to the Word of God. Don't be swayed by those who promote accepting and supporting sodomites within the church or another way to salvation apart from faith in Christ, because there IS NO OTHER WAY to heaven and God the Father!
6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)
12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
Those who promote these false doctrines and false ways are doomed unless they turn from their sin and accept Christ:
9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, NOR EFFEMINATE, NOR HOMOSEXUALS,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." (emphasis mine)
Their doom is graphically illustrated in Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
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