Posted on 09/09/2001 11:47:39 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
Will the OK state authorities stifle or allow information in the Nichols OK state trial about the other John Does in OKC with McVeigh at the time of the OKC bombing?
Since Nichols was in Kansas according to the Feds, John Does in OKC with McVeigh would possibly weaken an attempt to get a death penalty unless it is proven in court that Nichols provided crucial help to McVeigh AND John Does in the building and/or delivery of the truck bomb.
Jurors in the Federal trial of Nichols did not believe the Feds had proved their case that Nichols and McVeigh could have built and delivered the truck bomb on their own without the help of John Does. OK state trial jurors could come to the same conclusion as the Federal jurors unless new, compelling evidence is introduced.
If Nichols role was to scout the Murrah building with McVeigh and if Nichols knew beforehand of the plot, then Nichols would get a sentence similar to Fortier. If Nichols helped purchase and stockpile bomb making materials then his punishment would go up in severity but would probably fall short of a death penalty. McVeigh claims he coerced Nichols to help him assemble the bomb in Kansas, but OK state prosecutors cannot rely on McVeigh statements alone since McVeigh was not reliable or truthful.
There are witnesses and testimony to suggest the bomb components may have been loaded up in Kansas but that the truck bomb was actually built in Oklahoma. If the defense can prove the bomb was built in Oklahoma, then the prosecution could not say Nichols built the bomb in Oklahoma since he was in Kansas. If Nichols helped gather and load up bomb components in Kansas alone, he probably will get life in OK. To get the death penalty, the OK state prosecutors may have to prove that Nichols willingly and actually helped build the bomb, more than just stockpile components.
The only other way I could see Nichols getting the death penalty legitimately is if the prosecutors could prove Nichols provided assistance, knowledge, coordination and possibly other terrorists that were crucial to the success of the bombing doing so much damage and causing such great loss of life.
An example would be if Nichols did recruit ME men to help McVeigh in OKC build and/or deliver the truck bomb. Nichols is alleged by McVeigh defense attorney Jones (in his Writ of Mandamus, March 25, 1996) to have met with Abu Sayeff terrorists (Edwin Angeles and Wally Khan) in the Philippines backed by Bin Laden at a time when terrorist Ramsey Yousef was in the Philippines. Another example would be if Nichols actively recruited and coordinated militia or Freeman types from Kansas and Arizona to help build and deliver the bomb.
My point is that showing Nichols helped stockpile bomb making materials may not be enough to require the death penalty, but rather a life sentence in Oklahoma. To get the death sentence Nichols would have to have recruited and coordinated critical people who would have built and helped deliver the bomb- and that may difficult for the prosecution to prove unless they are willing to allow other John Does to be disclosed-and if that happened, the prosecution would then have to be careful to avoid claims John Doe evidence gathered by Oklahoma (Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, OSBI) and by the Feds, FBI, was illegally withheld in earlier trials and hearings, both Fed and state proceedings.
I have consistently heard reports for over five years from reliable sources working on the case that there are many witnesses who claim they saw ME men help McVeigh build the truck bomb in OKC on the night of April 18, 1995. If this is true, were these ME men directly connected to and/or recruited and coordinated by Nichols? If so, the prosecution will have a stronger case. If the ME men were not directly connected to Nichols but did help McVeigh, then the prosecutions case for a death penalty becomes weaker.
But there is still a dilemma here with the ME men situation for the OK state and Fed prosecutors because the Feds withheld and also refused to receive crucial evidence of ME involvement for over four years from former KFORTV reporter Jayna Davis. This evidence must be made available to the OK state prosecutors and to the Nichols OK trial defense attorneys or the outcome of the OK state trial will be in jeopardy.
And the Fed prosecutors have tried to claim the bomb was built in Kansas on April 18, 1995 with McVeigh present when there are witnesses having McVeigh in OKC on April 18, 1995 and helping him build the bomb in OK and not Kansas on April 18, 1995. FBI agent Jon Hersely testified at a Preliminary Hearing at El Reno on April 27, 1995, that the FBI had three good witnesses who had McVeigh in, at and near the Murrah building on April 18, 1995 and NOT in Kansas. I am aware of two witnesses who were janitors that worked in the Murrah building and saw McVeigh around 5:30 pm on April 18, 1995.
Another complication is that BlueDogDemo has posted publicly on the FreeRepublic that a member of the OSBI did sit in on one or more interviews of the FBI with Travelers Aid witnesses who identified McVeigh with three John Does in OKC at Travelers Aid one block west of the Murrah building at 2:30 pm on April 18, 1995. The OK state prosecutors had better not withhold this story and information from the trial or they will risk getting a conviction at all or risk getting any conviction overturned. The defense attorneys would then be able to ask why did the OSBI and FBI not reveal exculpatory info of other John Does to the defense through the prosecuting attorneys.
Surveillance tape evidence still being blocked by the FBI and DOJ and Judge Matsch is also strongly believed to show other John Does with McVeigh in OKC on April 19, 1995. John Morris Kuper testified at the Nichols trial that tapes from the surveillance cameras at the Public Library and Southwestern Bell Telephone buildings in OKC should show McVeigh with a John Doe shortly after 8 am on April 19, 1995. The FBI and US prosecutor Pat Ryan admitted they found early in 2001, FBI 302 interviews with Kuper in April 1995 that corroborated Kuper’s testimony.
And defense Attorney Micahel Tigar is still claiming that the FBI and DOJ is withholding many FBI 302 and lead sheets he identified and asked for in a hearing with Judge Matsch on July 7, 1999. This withheld 302 and lead sheet evidence along with the surveillance tapes could have a serious impact on the outcome of the OK state trial of Nichols, particularly if it is shown that the evidence pertains to John Does, was withheld illegally, or not provided properly and in a timely manner to the defense even for the OK state trial.
The presence of McVeigh with John Does in OKC on April 18, 1995 without Nichols helps Nichols defense and weakens the prosecutions case unless Nichols recruited and coordinated the John Doe efforts (he had to do more than just know about the plot like Fortier).
Even if Nichols is guilty enough to be deserving of the death penalty, the prosecutors have to play fair by the rules of evidence and by allowing relevant John Doe evidence and witnesses or they will risk allowing a guilty man not being sentenced to the extent they may want, or even of having their conviction later overturned if they should get a conviction.
You can count on Nichols being put away for life or executed so they can say there we got the other guy guilty--that's all of 'em!
http://www.mindprism.com/__ocbpt/chpt5b.html
The MiddleEastern connection is still very much alive in Prof. Mylorie's opinion.
"Legitimately" is definitely the key. I have visions of the prosecution team groaning that they can no longer count on "Black Magic" Gilchrist for conjuring up the evidence they need.
Seriously, though, good article, as always.
Wes Lane really was between a rock and a hard place when he made this decision. Choose to go to trial, and the feds get cranky; choose not to, and his career in this town would pretty much be over. The survivors and their families would see to it.
But what my editorial was about in part was whether or not Nichols would get death or a lesser sentence in the state trial, not whether or not he would get convicted (he likely will be convicted).
A determining factor for sentencing is the type and extent of Nichols role and the Federal jurors could not determine the type and extent of Nichols role other than that he was involved based on the evidence provided at trial. And this is why the jurors deferred on sentencing to Matsch. Matsch was not allowed by Federal statue to give the death sentence because the jury as not able to determine a sentence and did not want to since they could not determine the type and extent of involvement of Nichols.
And another point I was making is that Fortier was convicted of being part of a conspiracy based on your definition but was not sentenced to death or life imprisonment. The OK state prosecutors should have to prove much more than what was proved about Fortier, more than Nichols just being part of or knowing about a conspiracy to get a death penalty or life sentence for Nichols in OKlahoma.
The prosecutors may or may not succed in this depending on what evidence they present at the state trial. I wonder myself about the extent of Nichols involvement, I really do not know but I have an open mind.
"Various State law enforcement officers, will start taking early retirement--distancing themselves from the problems to come?"
"The DA's office will have to provide without a shadow of a doubt that Nichols had direct knowledge, and participation in the deaths of the 160 of our fellow state residents---that he can not do!!!!!!"
Do any of these various state law enforcement officers have enough shame or guilt to come forward about what they know? Or is that that they have so little shame or guilt (lost their souls?) that they will be able to fully enjoy the benefits of their retirement and pension checks? Are they interested in protecting the public or just themselves and their retirement?
What if it can be shown (it can be)that the Feds "had direct knowledge, and participation in the deaths of the 160 of our fellow state residents" through their provocateurs and informants even if they intended for the bombing to be stopped in time but failed?
Should not the State of Oklahoma try these Federal people and the Federal architects ("masterminds") of the failed sting for crimes against 160 Oklahoma citizens?
Should not the state of Oklahoma and the Oklahoma victims be compensated by civil punitive damages (paid for by Federal and state law enforcement officials pensions and retirements)for the costs incurred for the failed sting operation ancd coverup since it was criminal negligence?
If these fed and state law enforcement people can get away with this by reaping the rewards of retirement without having to pay some kind of price,then what kind of accountability and deterrence do we have to stop this from happening again and again in the future against our citizens. This is especially true since the DOJ, the FBI and Congress will not clean up the mess and take appropriate actions.
How else do we protect the public from ill conceived sting operations and from John Doe terrorists that the FBI will not protect the public from?
First: Do you realize how much better off everyone would have been -- both victims and the peripheral perpetrators -- if the Truth had been laid bare from the very beginning? The feebs wouldn't find themselves in such a sticky situation right now; brave people like Terrance Yeakey would be alive; and this web of deceit would be totally unnecessary. They'll never learn: The cover-up is usually much worse than the original crime. Sheesh.
Second: This will never go to trial. I don't know how they'll get out of it, but they will.
I'll bet that whoever is weighing the options is including the McDougal Option on the list. It may be at the bottom of that list, but I'd bet money it's there.
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