The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 139

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | sinkspur

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 138

[malakhi]

Big Mack is keeping our empire running so I can sit here and discuss:) He's been busy. Besides I'm not hogging anything, he has his own computer. Now you know.

I was just teasing, Becky!

I know BigMack will call you away from the computer when he needs someone to pick up a horse. ;o)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Animals have no soul.

Pssst....Proud2Be is a vegetarian...

[The_Reader_David]

You raise some objections to Christian doctrines on the basis that they seem so "arbitrary." I think you are suffering from the illusion (shared I may say by many Western Christians of great piety and sanctity) that theology is mathematics. One may as well object that the undoubted fact that most simple flowers have numbers of petals found in the Fibonnaci sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8,13,...)is arbitrary and you therefore are disinclined to believe it.

Theology is the positive science of the knowledge of God. There is givenness to humanity's experience of God, both under the Old Covenant and the New. The wages of sin are death not by an arbitary decree, but because finite created natures are finite both temporally and physically. Thus, absent communion with God and participation in His Uncreated Life ,we die. Sin is separation from God, and the acts we call sins are symptoms of the malady. I would commend to your attention the approach taken to these questions by the living continuation of the original Church: the Holy Orthodox Church. (The Latins are about to get in a snit, so I will point out that every local Church mentioned in Holy Scripture has had a continuous succession of Orthodox bishops until the present day, save Rome which broke with the rest of the Church in the 11th century. True, since the 1920's some, e.g. Ephesus, have had bishops in exile only since the Turkish Republic destroyed their local church, but...)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I knew you were teasing, I meant now you know how we both post at the same time. He has a computer, I use the web TV.:)

BTW, reading you all's little joke about me picking up a horse, (I'm very good at it:) made me think it would be interesting to see how the picture we have of each other matches reality:)

Becky

[pegleg]

The Latins are about to get in a snit, so I will point out that every local Church mentioned in Holy Scripture has had a continuous succession of Orthodox bishops until the present day, save Rome which broke with the rest of the Church in the 11th century.

No Catholic doubts that the Orthodox church is not Apostolic. However, isn’t it true that until the schism that all of your Bishops were in communion with the Bishop of Rome?

[pegleg]

You got that incorrect. The Orthodox churches are apostolic.

That's what I meant to say. Too much coffee this morning.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

My question is WHY. Why is the wages of sin death?

The death that is being spoken of here is eternal seperation from God. When Adam and Eve sin, they did not experience physical death right then, but God put them out of the garden and did not walk with them anymore. But in his Love and mercy for us he gave them/us a way to be right, we just have to accept the free gift.

Why does sin bring seperation from God? Because God is not only loving and merciful, he is also just and holy. He cannot be in the prescene of or look upon sin. He cannot tolerate sin in any form or degree. You find this out by reading his word:) Why do you think Jesus said on the cross "Father why hast thou forsaken me." It was because Jesus had become sin. His becoming sin was also the worst part of his death to him, not the pain and suffering of the crucifixtion, but having to become sin.

We should all just be glad that this just and holy God loved us enough to give us a way out of being seperated from him, and truly amazed and grateful that he did it by HIS OWN SON. That is a love that is hard to imagine for me, being a mother. I could not let my son die for a bunch of slime balls, like God did for us. Could you?

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

but God put them out of the garden

This was also an act of love and mercy. Gen 3:22 shows that God did not want man to be seperated for him eternally, or live forever with the curse, so he put them out of the garden lest they eat of the fruit of the tree of life and live forever. Which under the circumstances they were in would have been terrible.

Becky

[malakhi]

How does that jibe with the "no substitutionary atonement" doctrine?

The Israelites sacrificed animals, not people.

[The_Reader_David]

Of course our bishops were all in communion with the Orthodox Bishop of Rome, while there was one. Would be today if there still were.

[The_Reader_David]

Why do you assert that animals have no soul? It is beyond doubt that they lack the deiform soul which human beings have, but what is the principal of their animation if not a soul?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Maybe soul was the wrong word. But actually that is something I was taught in catholic schools. The difference between animals and humans is humans have a soul. But what I am speaking of is that man was made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26) animals wern't. I'm speaking of the difference between man and animal.

Becky

[pegleg]

Of course our bishops were all in communion with the Orthodox Bishop of Rome, while there was one. Would be today if there still were.

Apologies for a poorly worded response. I really must switch to decaf. Allow me to restate the question.

However, isn’t it true that until the schism that all of your Bishops recognized the primacy of Rome?

Also would like to know if you think our churches will ever be re-united.

[apologist]

I know I'm missing some people, so speak up and let me know who you are.

I'm not sure the word "conversion" applies; I was baptized in the Catholic Church (which I guess "officially" made me Catholic) and went to church until I was 18. Once I was out of the house (i.e.; not subject to the rules of mom and dad) I stopped going. I never at the time identified with Catholicism and/or Christianity. Only later did I appreciate and accept the Gospel message and now attend a Baptist church. I guess my point is I never felt that I converted from one faith to another. I just adopted one.

5 of the top 7 posters on dignan3's list from Thread 101 are converts to their present faith. Possible reasons?

A. Converts tend to be more informed about their beliefs than are those born into the faith.

I'd pick this one. If by "born into the faith" you mean a child is merely raised by parents to attend a certain church, I think that's largely meaningless. We all must personally "convert", of our own will, regardless of what mom and dad say we are.

[apologist]

I think the underlying principle was giving something of value back to God. Back then, livestock was the most precious commodity.

And hence the term "firstfruits"... it was the first, the best, to be given back to God.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Great response, and exactly the way it was for me.

Becky

[apologist]

I mean, why pain and bloodshed to make up for a sin? ..... Why does He have to become Man in order to die a bloody, horrible death on a cross.

Perhaps in our human minds we minimize sin, but in God's view sin is just as heinous as the sacrifices that cover them? If God is just, the penalty would fit the crime, no? He may see the crime in a different light than we do...