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The Territorial Sticking Point Between Russia and Ukraine
The New York Times ^ | Dec. 9, 2025 | Josh Holder

Posted on 12/09/2025 2:49:29 PM PST by MinorityRepublican

After weeks of peace talks and high-level meetings, Russia and Ukraine remain far apart on an issue central to bringing the war to an end: Territory.

The Kremlin has made clear that it wants to absorb all of an eastern area of Ukraine known as the Donbas. That includes a 2,500-square-mile area of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions that Russia has not been able to capture after nearly four years of fighting.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky reiterated on Monday his longstanding opposition to ceding territory to Russia.

More than 200,000 Ukrainians live in the area of Donetsk that Ukraine still controls, which includes the cities of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk.

The cities have strategic value for Ukraine: They have served as a Ukrainian military hub since 2014, and are among the most heavily fortified parts of the front.

Mr. Zelensky, who made the comments in an online chat with journalists after he met with the leaders of Europe’s largest economies, added that the United States was pushing for Ukraine to “compromise” on Moscow’s territorial demands.

A version of a U.S.-backed peace plan last month reflected many of those demands, including that Ukraine would have to cede to Russia all of Donetsk and Luhansk, beyond what Russia had captured in fighting. As a part of that plan, Russia would keep the parts of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions it occupies.

It was broadly rejected in Ukraine as capitulation, rewarding Russia for its invasion, and peace talks have since languished.

Ahead of a state visit to India earlier this month, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia reiterated that if Ukraine didn’t agree to cede the eastern Donbas region to Russia, then its troops will “liberate these territories by force.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Ukraine
KEYWORDS: notourwar; proxywar; trumpswar; ukraine; welfarewar; zeeyores; zelvisontour
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1 posted on 12/09/2025 2:49:29 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: MinorityRepublican

Barring some miraculous advance by the ukes on the battlefield, Russia will eventually take the rest that the ukes are being asked to give up. Does anyone see ir going diffrrently and if yes, why?


2 posted on 12/09/2025 2:55:45 PM PST by desertsolitaire (hite sea. My grandfather shouted warning to anyone who would listen that the Titanic was going to st)
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To: MinorityRepublican

The only reason why Russia has had trouble overrunning the Donbas is that NATO spent billions to strengthen the fortress cities after 2014, possibly for offensive as well as defensive operations.


3 posted on 12/09/2025 2:55:55 PM PST by phil00071
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To: phil00071
The only reason why Russia has had trouble overrunning the Donbas is that NATO spent billions to strengthen the fortress cities after 2014, possibly for offensive as well as defensive operations.

In that case, why would Ukraine give that up? Especially when it'll take the Russians another Bakhmut or Avdiivkan or capture what's left of the Donbass?

4 posted on 12/09/2025 3:00:56 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: phil00071

“The only reason why Russia has had trouble overrunning the Donbas is that NATO spent billions to strengthen the fortress cities after 2014, possibly for offensive as well as defensive operations.”

So, the comedian outsmarted Putin.

Pretty embarrassing for the dude that was going to restore the Russian Empire.


5 posted on 12/09/2025 3:04:22 PM PST by TexasGator (1.)
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To: desertsolitaire

Don’t disagree. Tragic as this prospect is, one cannot deny the incremental gains Russia is making, albeit at an obscene cost.


6 posted on 12/09/2025 3:11:01 PM PST by Apparatchik (Русские свиньи, идите домой)
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To: MinorityRepublican
More than 200,000 Ukrainians live in the area of Donetsk that Ukraine still controls,

They'll lose 200k soldiers defending the territory and lose it anyway.

Spare your men and take the deal.

7 posted on 12/09/2025 3:18:58 PM PST by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: mac_truck
They'll lose 200k soldiers defending the territory and lose it anyway.

Spare your men and take the deal.

Why would Zelensky take the deal? Knowing Putin, he'll just rebuild and attack Ukraine again later.

8 posted on 12/09/2025 3:22:44 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: MinorityRepublican

“liberate these territories by force.”

And Russia will get the usual piles of rubble and used coffins.

Relocating the pro-Russian Federation people now in Ukrainian-held Donetsk Oblast to new homes and factories in Russian-held Donetsk would be cheaper in terms of money, lives and time.


9 posted on 12/09/2025 3:25:31 PM PST by Brian Griffin
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To: MinorityRepublican

“Knowing Putin, he’ll just rebuild and attack Ukraine again later.”

Russian assets might be dribbled back over about 10 years.

The EU will have 10 years to build up Ukraine economically and militarily.


10 posted on 12/09/2025 3:28:35 PM PST by Brian Griffin
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To: MinorityRepublican
In that case, why would Ukraine give that up?

Because they are running soldiers and have no chance of doing anything but losing more territory.

What about that don't you understand? The President understands it.

11 posted on 12/09/2025 3:49:14 PM PST by Kazan
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To: TexasGator
o, the comedian outsmarted Putin. Pretty embarrassing for the dude that was going to restore the Russian Empire.

Even worse, Putin had to resort to recruiting North Koreans to the battlefield to fight for them, else they may have already lost.

I wouldn't GIVE them an inch. IF they can take it, which isn't a foregone conclusion, it will have a huge cost to it, limiting their ability to go beyond that, later.

But if you just GIVE it to them, they not only gain an huge strategic benefit, many of their forces remain intact, and ready to fight again, possibly soon.

12 posted on 12/09/2025 3:50:35 PM PST by Golden Eagle (Principles, not partisanship)
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To: Kazan

Trump only has 2 goals in Ukraine, both are short term. First, end the war, even if Ukraine has to surrender - land, pride, long term security, you name it - so he can claim he ended another war. Second, get Russia out of sanctions, so that we/he can make money from deals that are being held up, over uranium, rare earths, subway to Alaska, etc.

Problem for him is, Ukraine and Europe are more interested in long term security, than anything, and on that front, Trump is not offering much, at least nothing specific.

And Ukraine already got screwed over vague promises when they gave up their nukes, that probably would have prevented this invasion completely.

Bottom line, if Russia wants more territory, it’s looking like they’ll have to bleed some more for it. And they’ve already bled a lot, so we’ll just have to see.


13 posted on 12/09/2025 4:02:57 PM PST by Golden Eagle (Principles, not partisanship)
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To: Golden Eagle

There is no substitute for oil and Russia’s will run out last. Europe has none.

There is nothing anyone can do about this. They are destined to achieve world dominance because their oil will run out last, and it is oil that grows crops and carries them to the shelf.


14 posted on 12/09/2025 4:08:52 PM PST by Owen
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To: Golden Eagle

Russia wants all of Ukraine. They don’t recognize the right of Ukraine to be a separate country. If Putin agrees to a treaty it will be to give time for Russia to rebuild its military before invading the remainder of Ukraine (possibly after Trump is out of office).


15 posted on 12/09/2025 4:09:21 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: MinorityRepublican

I’m sure the NYT will have the unbiased truth. Well, sort of sure. Not sure enough to waste my time reading it or giving them a click.


16 posted on 12/09/2025 4:11:07 PM PST by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: MinorityRepublican

Trump’s behavior here is disgusting. I prefer the Cold War stay won. I’m glad I voted for Nikki Haley.


17 posted on 12/09/2025 4:25:10 PM PST by TheEditor
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To: MinorityRepublican

“Knowing Putin, he’ll just rebuild and attack Ukraine again later.”

Oooh. That sentence needs some editing:

“Knowing Russia, they’ll just rebuild and attack Ukraine again later.”

There, all better now!


18 posted on 12/09/2025 4:27:02 PM PST by TheEditor
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To: Golden Eagle
And Ukraine already got screwed over vague promises when they gave up their nukes, that probably would have prevented this invasion completely.

There was never scenario where Russia was going to allow Ukraine to keep nuclear weapons that were placed there by the Soviets.

19 posted on 12/09/2025 4:31:51 PM PST by Kazan
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To: TheEditor
Putin is Russia.

Almost like Hitler or Stalin when they led their countries during WWII.

Russia would never have invaded Ukraine, if it wasn't for Putin trying to reestablish the Russian Empire.

20 posted on 12/09/2025 4:36:22 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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