Posted on 12/09/2025 12:05:16 PM PST by Navy Patriot
President Donald Trump's envoys have given Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy only days to respond to a proposed peace deal that would require Ukraine to accept territorial losses in exchange for unspecified U.S. security guarantees, with one person familiar with the timeline saying Trump wants an agreement "by Christmas."
Zelenskyy told European leaders that he was pushed during a two-hour phone call with Trump special envoy Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, to make a quick decision, reports the Financial Times on Tuesday.
Officials familiar with the talks said that the Ukrainian leader told Witkoff and Kushner that he needs more time to consult with allies in Europe before he responds to Washington's proposal, as Kyiv is concerned that Western unity will be fractured if the United States moves forward without support from Europe.
"To be honest, the Americans are looking for a compromise today," Zelenskyy told reporters...
One Western official described Ukraine as caught between demands it cannot accept on its territory and a U.S. position it cannot reject.
In an interview with Politico on Monday, Trump was asked whether he had set a timeline for Zelenskyy to agree to a deal and said that he had offered a new draft of a peace plan that Zelenskyy had not reviewed yet, but that some Ukrainian officials liked.
"Well, he's gonna have to get on the ball and start accepting things," Trump said. "He's losing."
Russian forces have recently intensified missile and drone attacks on Ukraine's energy infrastructure and have made steady, though costly, gains in the southeast.
In the Donetsk region, which Russia and the United States are pressing Ukraine to concede as part of a peace settlement, Moscow's forces have captured much of the strategic stronghold of Pokrovsk and are threatening the nearby town of Myrnohrad.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
Z will be ordered to stall, his bosses are still making money by getting Ukrainians killed and diverting funding. Cut the money and everything changes. Europe down to trying give Russia’s frozen funds to Z instead of its own money. Biz as usual for them.
“Unspecified security guarantees”?
If Zelensky thinks the UK and France can deploy on the battlefield to save the situation, he’s crazy.
Trump should have walked away a long time ago.
American Polls show Americans are concerned about
Domestic issues as their top issues.
Yookland is at the bottom of what Americans are concerned about
Trump should listen to what these Polls are telling him.
Spend more time on domestic issues.
France can help him surrender, they are experts, the UK can help him install Shariah Law and 9-year-old brides, they are also experts.
Article 65
Defence of the Motherland, of the independence and territorial indivisibility of Ukraine, and respect for its state symbols, are the duties of citizens of Ukraine.
Article 73
Altering the territory of Ukraine is resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.
Article 102
The President of Ukraine....is the guarantor of state sovereignty and territorial indivisibility of Ukraine, the observance of the Constitution of Ukraine and human and citizen’s rights and freedoms.
Article 132
The territorial structure of Ukraine is based on the principles of unity and indivisibility of the state territory....
Article 134
The Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an inseparable constituent part of Ukraine and decides on the issues ascribed to its authority within the limits of authority determined by the Constitution of Ukraine.
Article 157
The Constitution of Ukraine shall not be amended, if the amendments foresee the abolition or restriction of human and citizen’s rights and freedoms, or if they are oriented toward the liquidation of the independence or violation of the territorial indivisibility of Ukraine.
The Constitution of Ukraine shall not be amended in conditions of martial law or a state of emergency.
https://ccu.gov.ua/sites/default/files/constitution_2019_eng.pdf
Russia can probably take all of Donbas, but is it worth ~20,000 more Russian dead so the ~60,000 who now live under Zelensky but would rather live under Putin can live and work where they do?
The ~60,000 could move ~15 miles to the east where Putin could build brand new apartments and factories for them for far less cost than fighting the war for even two more months.
If Putin’s military could manage to take the cities unconquered as of now, they would lie in ruins. Russia would have to build new housing and factories for both pro-RF residents and anti-RF residents.
The ISW maps from 2025 should be used to show Putin the difficulties Russian forces will continue to face in Donbas.
I would suggest making up two 3x4 compilations of ISW Donbas maps, one going back 11 months and one going back 110 days.
The Donbas seems to be the most difficult issue to resolve, but it should not be.
The Donbas is the most expensive real estate in Ukraine in terms of Russian lives per hectare.
“Moscow’s forces have captured much of the strategic stronghold of Pokrovsk and are threatening the nearby town of Myrnohrad.”
Both places are all but lost to Ukraine, but they are about 1% of the uncaptured Donetsk Oblast Putin has been trying to snatch in the last year.
I’m not sure why the Russians have been able to improve what is still a lousy performance and I can’t read Russian to find out why.
It has been suggested that Ukraine is short of manpower and ammo. The EU can train Ukrainians and supply ammo.
Another possibility is that Ukraine lacks electricity to run its ammo factories.
[Uppity English Accent]
Prime Minister Starmer is quite mad, you know.
/Accent
[as I have posted for many months]
Zelensky might insist that:
1. the agreement should state that it is a long-term armistice meant to preserve human life and property and that no territory is to be considered as ceded or any claim to territory relinquished,
2. Ukraine be allowed to have an unlimited number of trained military personnel of Ukrainian citizenship, artillery pieces, artillery shells, anti-aircraft guns, anti-aircraft missiles of types now in its service and future equivalents, tanks and drones of a range of less than a certain number of kilometers,
3. monetary aid from the US and EU to enable Ukraine to retain in military service its battle-hardened military personnel,
[I suggest up to $12 billion/year, up to a total of $200 billion.]
4. the Ukrainian right to buy for source country money listed weapons [Patriots, anti-aircraft weapons, artillery shells, missiles] from the US, EU and possibly the UK at prices in line with what the source entity government(s) would pay, subject to such restrictions as the law of the EU itself may impose,
[That’s a security guarantee that I think EU citizens and Americans can live with.]
5. sanctions on Russia to be removed only after a certain period of Russian good behavior.
Note which is number 1.
It’s time for Trump coax Putin.
Zelensky also said he could play the piano with his penis.
“Starmer”
I can’t name a dumber Labour Prime Minister.
He’s quite mad, you know.
I haven't read that Zelensky has asked for that.
I think everyone here agrees that President Trump inherited one heck of a mess in the Ukraine situation, instigated by Russia's invasion, and that it wouldn't have happened had he been COC.
But here we are. Lord, I hope this latest push by everyone with President Trump at the helm can get this war ended.
I don't think we can imagine the repercussions of the US just turning tail cold turkey.
I pray there is an agreement reached.
Good luck with that. He doesn’t want to give up the power, the money, and all the trappings that come with them. Plus, he’s probably afraid.
I heard a definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Not sure what Trump is trying to do over and over and over.
It’s worth putting the red lines into a context even the retard Putin can understand.
1. Yanukovych’s betrayal was so egregious, the Banderite paramilitaries went from obscurity to national hero status. Before 2013 there were fewer than 1000 active participants in Ukronazi groups and most of them were doing nothing more exotic than what the Proud Boys in the USA were doing; by the end of 2015 there were over 10,000 ready to pick up arms and shoot at Russian separatists.
Ukraine went from electing governments friendly to Russia, to electing governments that were hostile to Russia.
Putin’s bully boy tactics didn’t reduce “Russophobia”; they achieved the complete opposite. Zelensky broke up the nazi batallions in 2019; Putin using their neutering as an excuse to escalate turned out to be the best ever recruiting poster for Azov and Banderism.
This isn’t even an issue specific to Ukraine. The Baltic states are getting hysterically anti-Russian. Finland is tooling up.
And even Lukashenko told Putin directly, if Russia tries to force annexation on Belarus before the country is ready for it, he fears the Belarussian people will rise up against him AND against Russia. Basically - as even Russia’s biggest stooge knows can’t prevent his own people going to war with Russia if it’s a choice between that and assimmilation, Russia can’t expect all of Ukraine to just sit back and take an even worse deal than that.
Putin’s attitude so far has been, the only agreement he wants a Ukrainian signature on is a surrender deal or a suicide note that was written in the Kremlin and which embraces all of Putin’s maximalist demands while offering nothing of substance in return.
Problem is, it wouldn’t even matter if Zelensky did sign that deal. The deal is so toxic, even Ukrainians who’ve wanted to stay out of the war may decide they’d rather die quick from shooting at the Russian invaders than experience thirty years of Putin’s “Russification” and collective punishment.
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