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Putin has just discovered the scale of his latest miscalculation
The Telegraph ^

Posted on 07/14/2025 1:28:01 PM PDT by USA-FRANCE

President Donald Trump has finally lost patience with Vladimir Putin. Having promised a “major” announcement on Russia, Trump has now confirmed that the US will dramatically increase weapons supplies to Europe for use in Ukraine and threatened 100 per cent secondary tariffs on Russia’s trade partners. Trump would only provide Russia with an off-ramp if Putin agreed to a ceasefire in Ukraine within 50 days.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: European Union; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Russia
KEYWORDS: 2026wipeout; absurdzeeping; adorko; delusionalzeepers; delusionalzeeping; endlesswars; europeanunion; foreigntrolls; foreigntrollsonfr; francefrog; freep4putin; frenchpeople; froggymaximus; lindseygrahamfans; nato; neoconcirclejerk; notmaga; notourproblem; notourwar; putinfafo; putinthewarpig; russianaggression; russiansuicide; toiletpapertiger; ukraine; vladtheimploder; vlodthewanger; warisgoodbusiness; wazrmongers
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To: adorno
“Most contributions to NATO funding are from the U.S. If the U.S is the major contributor to NATO, it means that the U.S. is also paying for the new weapons, even if indirectly. “

Except of course Ukraine is not in NATO.
Thank God for that.

“What's to stop a NATO country from redirecting some of its NATO contribution to their separate national defense budget, and then say that the money is being used to purchase the weapons for Ukraine? Is someoddy tracking how the money is allocated and spent or redistributed, in individual countries? “

What's to stop them?
Trump?

“The approach is dubious. If U.S. funds cannot be tracked within NATO to insure that none of it goes towards the weapons for Ukraine, then it's a big farce.”

Its all you got.

“That's another problem. There is no reason to be reluctant about assistance to Ukraine, since it's clear that Putin has a goal of completely taking over Ukraine”

Plenty of reasons for US tax payers to stop pouring money into the corrupt, sleazy Zellensky regime, including the $37 Trillion US federal government debt.
Only a fool keeps borrowing money to give the money to a thief.

161 posted on 07/16/2025 10:10:14 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno

“Russia would be toast if they went up against the NATO countries, even without the U.S.”

Nope.
Without US support, Russia would smoke Europe without too much trouble.
Just try it and see.
Even as we are speaking, you are STILL hustling for even more massive US military support for Ukraine at the expense of US tax payers.
Even after the over $300 Billion Biden the moron has already sent to Ukraine for free.
Chuckle.


162 posted on 07/16/2025 10:18:07 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Russia invaded Afghanistan, yes.

I had no idea. LOL...

Wonder if anybody else noticed. ;)

But NATO also invaded Afghanistan and stayed there much longer and installed a new government, albeit NATO disguised their invasion like it was just a US invasion. It wasn't.

It must've been thousands of years ago, because you don't remember the 9/11 attacks against the U.S, And, from what I remember from 'thousands of years ago', it was the stone-age Taliban that executed those attacks.

The Taliban operated in Afghanistan, and they 'invited' the invasion by the U.s. and its allies in NATO.

If I remember correctly, any nation that is attacked has a right to defend itself, even if it occurred thousands of years ago or from thousands of miles away. It therefore was not an invasion, but a counter-attack.

Retaliation can be redefined as an invasion, if people are blind to the truth. You are blinded to the truth, because that truth seemed to occur thousands of years ago, as far as you're concerned. Maybe you can convince those lass than 25 years old about YOUR version of the truth.

Nevertheless, what occurred with Afghanistan with the U.S./NATO involvement, cannot be equated to what Russia is doing in Ukraine and has done in other countries.
163 posted on 07/16/2025 10:27:29 AM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: adorno
“Retaliation can be redefined as an invasion, if people are blind to the truth. You are blinded to the truth, because that truth seemed to occur thousands of years ago, as far as you're concerned. Maybe you can convince those lass than 25 years old about YOUR version of the truth.”

You can't invade and occupy another country for over 20 years because Bin Laden (who is not even from Afghanistan), organized a bunch of Al Quaeda crazies to drive planes into tall buildings in New York and the Pentagon.
Inevitably, they are going to kick you out.
Afghanistan has a very long history of kicking arrogant foreign invaders out.
Much better options would be to go after Al Quaeda and Bin Laden all out.
Taliban is not Al Quaeda.

164 posted on 07/16/2025 10:42:06 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Without US support, Russia would smoke Europe without too much trouble.

NATO without the U.S. is a force that Putin/Russia dare not get even close to. Ukraine was/is not really considered European by Putin, and he though he was free to invade. Big mistake!

Just try it and see.

There has never been a reason to try something so stupid. No reason for any NATO country or the entirety of NATO to try doing something uncalled for. Only if Russia decided to test NATO, would NATO get involved. It doesn't happen the other way around.

Even as we are speaking, you are STILL hustling for even more massive US military support for Ukraine at the expense of US tax payers.

It's not me. It's Putin asking for the U.S. to get involved and to support Ukraine with weapons and economic aid. It Putin had not invaded, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Put the blame where it belongs.

Even after the over $300 Billion Biden the moron has already sent to Ukraine for free.

Russia is being contained. That's a huge dividend. We are stopping Russia and Ukraine is doing the fighting, although they shouldn't be alone in doing so. Up to now, it has been just aid from a distance, and that's been enough. If more is required. NATO and the U.S. will have to provide, no matter how YOU feel about it.

The Ukrainian people have a right to a free and independent country, and Russia and its allies and forum/internet supporters, have to be stopped.

Chuckle.

Yeah, invasions and wars are funny business. ;)
165 posted on 07/16/2025 10:42:11 AM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: adorno
“Nevertheless, what occurred with Afghanistan with the U.S./NATO involvement, cannot be equated to what Russia is doing in Ukraine and has done in other countries.”

America has invaded vastly more countries after WW II than any other country, vastly more than Russia has,
Again, the Crimea was part of Russia anyway, until Khrushchev handed it over to Ukraine.
Russia just took back what was theirs in the first place.

166 posted on 07/16/2025 10:48:28 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno

“NATO without the U.S. is a force that Putin/Russia dare not get even close to.”

Russia would be very happy to take a NATO with no US apart.
Try it.

Ukraine was/is not really considered European by Putin, and he though he was free to invade. Big mistake!

He is still in Ukraine, no?
Still in control of the lands he took, no?


167 posted on 07/16/2025 10:53:10 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno

“It’s not me. It’s Putin asking for the U.S. to get involved and to support Ukraine with weapons and economic aid”

Putin is “asking for US support for Ukraine” huh?
On what planet was that then?
Chuckle.

“Russia is being contained. That’s a huge dividend.”

Russia/Soviet Union has been contained for 80 years after WW II, mostly because of massive US economic/military input. Had nothing to do with Ukraine.


168 posted on 07/16/2025 11:01:41 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Except of course Ukraine is not in NATO. Thank God for that.

That's what YOU think and what Putin was counting on. Big mistake by Putin when he decided to invade a non-NATO country. Might as well have been a full member of NATO. God is not listening to YOU.

“What's to stop a NATO country from redirecting some of its NATO contribution to their separate national defense budget, and then say that the money is being used to purchase the weapons for Ukraine? Is someoddy tracking how the money is allocated and spent or redistributed, in individual countries? “

Great question by whoever posed it. ;)

What's to stop them? Trump?

You have no idea, but you just agreed with me on the answer which was contained within the question.

Thanks for agreeing, though.



Well stated, by whoever said it. ;)

Its all you got.

And that's a lot, to which you have no response. Being dismissive about the question means it's YOU that's got nothing.

“That's another problem. There is no reason to be reluctant about assistance to Ukraine, since it's clear that Putin has a goal of completely taking over Ukraine”

Another gem by whoever you're quoting. ;)

Plenty of reasons for US tax payers to stop pouring money into the corrupt, sleazy Zellensky regime,

That 'regime' is the duly-elected government voted in by the Ukrainians voters. Guess you don't agree with the democratic process of elections, and in that sense. you are just like Putin, whom you admire so much. And the tax-payers in the U.S. do not directly decide where their tax dollars will be spent. That's what representative government is about. You need to get informed about how democracy works and what representative government is about.

including the $37 Trillion US federal government debt. Only a fool keeps borrowing money to give the money to a thief.

] No money would be getting spent for Ukraine, if the biggest thief of all was not trying to steal Ukraine for his own legacy and for Russia.

And when it comes to the national debt, it would still be around $37 billion, even without the Ukraine aid.

The aid for Ukraine is already being accounted for by the massive defense spending and by the economic aid which is regular spending with foreign aid.

it's always the same stupid rhetoric from those who are clueless about where the spending goes and where it comes from. The national debt will continue rising ever after the Ukraine war ends.

If you would stop assisting Putin, perhaps the war could end soon and Zelensky would not be getting YOUR money. ;)
169 posted on 07/16/2025 11:16:28 AM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: adorno
“That's what YOU think and what Putin was counting on. Big mistake by Putin when he decided to invade a non-NATO country. Might as well have been a full member of NATO. God is not listening to YOU.”

Nope.
You wish, but reality is Ukraine is not a member of NATO and NATO defence agreements do not apply to Ukraine.
Good news is, that's what Trump thinks and that's what counts.

170 posted on 07/16/2025 11:22:48 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno
“That ‘regime’ is the duly-elected government voted in by the Ukrainians voters. “

Nope.
Zellensky canceled elections for 2 years now.
As Trump said, Zellemsky’s a dictator.

"Guess you don't agree with the democratic process of elections, and in that sense. you are just like Putin, whom you admire so much."

Putin managed to hold free and fair elections despite the war and won with over 80% of the vote.
Zellensky?
He just canceled elections.

” And the tax-payers in the U.S. do not directly decide where their tax dollars will be spent”

Oh yes they do, by voting the foolish Biden, who handed out over $300 to Ukraine, out of office.

171 posted on 07/16/2025 11:33:32 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
So tell us, who were the first country to go to space? Answer : Russia.

There was no need to go into space back then. The Russians did it for propaganda reasons.

Then the U.S. woke up and overtook the Russians in virtually no time. The U.S.was first on the moon, and Russia has not been there yet, more than 5 decades later. And neither have the Chinese. I'm not joking, honestly. ;)



First country to send an animal to space? Russia.

More propaganda. Meanwhile, the U.S. was the first to land HUMANS on the moon, and Russia has NEVER done it.

First country to send a human to space? Russia.

Still for propaganda purposes, and they have NEVER landed a human on the moon. We'll be the fits on Mars, and Russia will still nave not sent a man to the moon.

First country to send a satellite to Space? Russia.

Still propaganda. And now, we 'own' space, and we landed a man on the moon, and plated the American flag there, and will do the same on MArs in the not too distant future. Russia is still sending its cosmonauts into orbits, with no real accomplishments to show for it.

Russia also sent a space craft to the moon long before America did.

We landed men on the moon, several times. Russia still hasn't done anything close to that. The Chinese will land men there before Russia. And, we sent space craft to the outer reaches of the solar system and beyond and towards intergalactic space. Space aliens will receive our messages long before Russia can land men on the moon.

And currently, both Russia and China have rovers on Mars, while Europe has none.

The U.S. did that, long before China or Russia did. And, the British-built Beagle 2 lander, part of the European Space Agency's (ESA) Mars Express mission, successfully touched down on Mars in 2003. although communication was lost.

Back to China.....they have a rover on both the moon and on Mars.

Been there, done that, is what the U.S. would say.

Plus China by itself has their own Space Station, designed and built by them, with their rockets regularly sending their own astronauts to their own space station.

All done with stolen technology from the U.S. and Europe.

Now lets talk about cars...China currently makes more cars than Europe and America combined

All done with stolen/copied technology from the U.S. and Europe and S.Korea and Japan.

and are crushing Europe in the EV car making business.

Well, they do have a population 3 times as large as Europe and America combined. In China, necessity is the mother of production.

China is making better cars and at lower prices than Europe.

That can't be proven. And, whatever the Chinese make is with stolen American and Europeans and Japanese and S.Korean technology. In AI, China came out of nowhere with DeepSeek which essentially crushed any Ai chatbox that Europe has.

The only reason DeepSeek was heard about, is because it was done with cheaper and slower hardware. AI was created with U.S. technology, and there again, the Chinese were copying what we developed. America is still leading in the AI arena. China is desperately hoping that sanctions won't keep them from being able to copy/steal AI technology.

Now you wanna talk about consumer electronics which the Chinese dominate?

Well, cheap labor tends to favor the production capability of the Chinese, but in technological terms, they're still dependent on American tech companies sending their production operations to China. If American companies were required to pull out of China, they would be kept in place for technological development, while the rest of the world made all the future development.

China would still be in the 1940s if it were not for their cheap labor and low cost of production.

Still, the junk they produce is being noticed and people are looking for better quality in their purchases.
172 posted on 07/16/2025 12:13:06 PM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: Captain Peter Blood
NATO does not have any of the things you say. Our technology in missiles and many others things are way behind the Russians. They have Hypersonic Missile technology, we don’t, they have also developed a Kinetic Energy Bomb just as destructive as nuclear weapons, we don’t have that either. And yes Russia has a vast Nuclear Arsenal. Also the West no longer has a manufacturing base to mass produce arms and munitions and the Russians do. They are prepared and we are not.

Russian military technology is nothing special. All of their fancy new hypersonics are nothing more than slightly improved ballistic missiles. We have those too. The Minuteman III was MIRV-capable in the 1970s, we just never fully fielded conventional versions, leaving them as nuclear-only. Kinetic Energy Bomb? You mean those same ballistic missiles with just a chunk of mass? Again, nothing special or new.

Russia has a vast nuclear arsenal, but not that much bigger as they've been under treaty limitations for a while, and certainly haven't had time to build that many more since they half-pulled out of the last one. And I'd bet much of their arsenal is in the same under-maintained, non-capable status as the rest of their big stuff. Like Navy ships that can't operate missile defenses...

Russian military manufacturing is up, because they shifted their economy to that focus three years ago. They also have poor quality control, low environmental restrictions, making it easy to just go. No one is at war in NATO, the only thing driving increased output is given stuff to Ukraine. But Russia's not prepared for a war, they barely have the logistics and support to fight Ukraine, and can only make it 100 miles out of their borders in three years. A country with no navy has cut their Black Sea fleet in half. Their only carrier is a coal-powered ski-jumper that sinks in drydock.. Their cutting-edge air fleet has EWACS that's 50 years old (same country with minimal air force cut those in half too), and they're scared to even fly their newest stuff anywhere near Ukraine's several-generations-old Patriot systems. You really think Russia is more prepared to fight us, than we are against them?
173 posted on 07/16/2025 12:27:24 PM PDT by Svartalfiar (-)
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To: adorno
“There was no need to go into space back then. “

Oh yes there was.
Plenty of US books/movies about space in the 30s 40’s 50’s before man ever went to space.
Its like saying there was no reason for Europe to “discover” America before they did.
There was,
They just didn't have the technology and the means and determination to do it earlier.

"The Russians did it for propaganda reasons."

Like every other country after?
Not to mention Russia did it as a by product of their ICBM program.
They developed the technology to go to space before anyone else.
Its that simple.

174 posted on 07/16/2025 12:28:48 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno
“Then the U.S. woke up and overtook the Russians in virtually no time.”

Yeah?
The US “went ahead” so far that from 2011 to 2020, America had to depend on the Russians to use Soyuz to get US astronauts to the Space Station, after the Shuttle had crashed twice killing 14 people, forcing the US government to suspend it..
Musk and SpaceX rescued the US with the Dragon in 2020.

"The U.S.was first on the moon, and Russia has not been there yet, more than 5 decades later. And neither have the Chinese. I'm not joking, honestly. ;)"

Actually the Russians were the first to send a space raft to the moon. and have landed space craft on the moon lots of times,
More recently, the Chinese have a rover on the moon and on Mars, even as the last few US space craft to the moon have had crash landed leaving them only half functioning.

175 posted on 07/16/2025 12:39:57 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno
“And, the British-built Beagle 2 lander, part of the European Space Agency's (ESA) Mars Express mission, successfully touched down on Mars in 2003. although communication was lost.”

Crash landed and failed to communicate.
How does that count?

“All done with stolen technology from the U.S. and Europe. “

Keep telling yourself that?
They got ahead of Europe by stealing Europe technology huh?
Chuckle.

“All done with stolen/copied technology from the U.S. and Europe and S.Korea and Japan. “

Nope.
Through hard work, sweat and innovation.
The Chinese produce a third of the world's engineers every year.
It shows.

“The only reason DeepSeek was heard about, is because it was done with cheaper and slower hardware.”

DeepSeek and other Chinese AI companies stunned the world with their stunning performance, which is what counts at the day. Sheer performance.

176 posted on 07/16/2025 12:55:08 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Plenty of US books/movies about space in the 30s 40’s 50’s before man ever went to space.

Really? That's it? Movies???

After we went to space, how have the movies changed? Movies would still be made about fantasies, and that's what we still have. Maybe if we finally get to meet the Klingons, will the space movies be made different.

Its like saying there was no reason for Europe to “discover” America before they did. There was,

Yet, humans populated all regions of the world, before Europeans decided to venture away from Europe. No need to discover the new world, since it was already discovered. And Columbus and others were looking for other ways to get to India and other far-away lands, not NEW lands. The 'new' lands were 'discovered' by chance, not purposely, like the attraction to go to space is/was. But still, going into space first was about the propaganda value. "Look what we can do!" was the propaganda value as far as Russia was concerned. Winning at sports is what Russia was good at too, but for propaganda value too. "We have a superior culture and a superior country" type of thing.

They just didn't have the technology and the means and determination to do it earlier.

No matter. Going to space first was about bragging rights and propaganda.

The Russians did it for propaganda reasons.

Some very smart person must've said that. ;)

Like every other country after?

Bragging rights were no longer the purpose, and since the initial ventures into space, everything that's happened since is about progress and knowledge and improving lives on Earth.

Not to mention Russia did it as a by product of their ICBM program.

That was still no reason to go into space, which was mostly about bragging rights.

They developed the technology to go to space before anyone else.

The science about how to get into space was known prior to the Russian space efforts. but the Russians saw the propaganda value in going into space first.

It's that simple.


177 posted on 07/16/2025 1:05:53 PM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: adorno
The Russians just developed the technology before anyone else, and again America was reduced to begging the Russians for rides to the SpaceStation on Soyuz from 2011 to 2020, that's a good 9 years.
At high cost.
178 posted on 07/16/2025 1:18:07 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: adorno
“Really? That's it? Movies??? “

Movies, books, comics, TV, popular culture etc.
America just didn't have the technology to get there first.
The Russians did.

179 posted on 07/16/2025 1:23:15 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
“That ‘regime’ is the duly-elected government voted in by the Ukrainians voters.

Still 100% true.

Zellensky canceled elections for 2 years now.

Pay attentiion to the facts. Zelensky was elected before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Cancelling elections was mandated by the constitution of Ukraine, and there is absolutely no way that elections could occur during wartime and during martial law. Zelensky did not cancel elections before Putin invaded. And it was Putin that caused the elections to be cancelled or postponed. Put the blame on Putin for the cancellation of elections in Ukraine.

As Trump said, Zelensky a dictator.

Trump has realized that the only dictator in the war is Putin. And he's ordering sanctions on Russia and on those who trade with Russia. That doesn't sound like support for calling Zelensky a dictator or believing that he is one.

Guess you don't agree with the democratic process of elections, and in that sense. you are just like Putin, whom you admire so much

A fair and true observation.

Putin managed to hold free and fair elections despite the war and won with over 80% of the vote.

Not even somebody with half a brain would believe that Putin held a frair election in Russia. Ain't such an animal in Russia, much less with Putin as the ONLY candidate. Even a 5-year old would NOT believe Putin would hold a fair election in Russia. Fair elections would have sent Putin packing more than 20 years ago.

Zellensky? He just canceled elections.

He did NOT cancel elections. The Ukrainian constitution made that happen. And there would be no way to conduct elections in Ukraine, even if he waned to. Grow some brain matter.

And the tax-payers in the U.S. do not directly decide where their tax dollars will be spent

That should be obvious to anybody that's ever been in the U.S. and knows about representative government.

Oh yes they do,

Oh no they don't.

by voting the foolish Biden, who handed out over $300 to Ukraine, out of office.

You are so clueless.

First, aid to Ukraine was NOT approved directly by the voters. It was done by our representative government, including, unfortunately, Biden. He was voted in, even as it's very suspicious how he became president.

Furthermore, Congress controls the purse stings, and congress has to approve spending, and spending for Ukraine was approved several times. IOW, our representative government sent the aid to Ukraine. It wasn't done directly by the voters or citizens. You need to learn about how representative government works in our type of democracy.

Stop being so clueless.
180 posted on 07/16/2025 1:38:03 PM PDT by adorno ( )
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