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Why Negotiations With Russia Seem So Difficult
The American Conservative ^ | 7/13/25 | George O'Neill

Posted on 07/13/2025 12:47:23 PM PDT by EnderWiggin1970

Russia is more than a millennium old with a long diplomatic history. Some of Russia’s difficulty may come from the U.S. elites’ ignorance of Russian history and its sensitivities to real or perceived threats of foreign invasion. Many Americans remember the huge drama which arose during the Kennedy presidency when the Soviets put a few missiles in Cuba. Foreign policy wonks still talk about how close we came to World War III.

Americans who do not know or acknowledge Russia’s history are unable to understand Russian thinking, thus compromising their ability to consummate agreements with Russia.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the U.S. political elites promised not to move NATO east into former Warsaw Pact countries. Every time another former Warsaw Pact nation was added into NATO, the Russians complained and the West shrugged off the complaints. They believed Russia was too weak due to their struggle to recover from the ruinous Soviet years. Washington’s attitude was, “So what are you going to do about it?”

U.S. leaders also have spent years engaging ad nauseam in threats to weaken or break up Russia, to ruin the Russian economy, to change the Russian regime—and, of course, have levied decades of never-ending sanctions. This behavior has eroded the trust necessary to negotiate in good faith.

(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Russia; Ukraine
KEYWORDS: nato; putinthewarpig; russia; russiansuicide; russiantrollfarm; ukraine; vladtheimploder; war
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To: Williams

...if it makes you feel better, fine.


41 posted on 07/13/2025 1:50:57 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Leaning Right

“Putin rolled tanks across a sovereign border and started a terrible,”

The coup government in Kiev invaded the Donbass to try to grab all territory of the Ukraine they overthrew. Everybody forgets, grabbing the capitol city and government by force does not mean you inherit everything they had.
The rest of the country has the same right to grab what they can.
So when western Uke Banderists grabbed Kiev and attacked Russian friendly eastern Ukraine and Crimea, they flipped the finger and broke off.


42 posted on 07/13/2025 1:54:30 PM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI….There’s really not much to)
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To: DesertRhino

A Significant Geopolitical Problem for President Trump and Us

July 10, 2025 | Sundance 

Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on the sidelines of a meeting of foreign ministers from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Kuala Lumpur today.  Against the backdrop of multiple questions to him about the outcome of their discussion, let us first discuss the problem being avoided.

In the mind of President Putin, and in the growing awareness of the American electorate, the President of the United States does not control the Intelligence Community. It is entirely possible for the USIC to take America deeper toward war despite the President and people of America not wanting that to happen. Putin is simply prepared for that outcome.

This reality explains a dynamic where President Trump engages with President Putin in an effort to stop the war in Ukraine, yet President Putin continues the war in Ukraine; because ultimately he knows President Trump does not control the elements that facilitate the Ukraine military.

People struggle to accept this dynamic. However, I would remind everyone that right now YOU are paying for the entire government of Ukraine to exist. Including the Ukraine govt payrolls, retirement benefits, healthcare and operational budget of Ukraine overall.

Americans do not want to pay for that. President Trump does not want to pay for that. Yet, here we are, paying for that.

The same inertia process applies to the literal Ukraine war and conflict with Russia.

You might not want it. President Trump might not want it. Yet, here again we are providing weapons, intelligence, satellite communication, personnel and systems for the war.

This is the reality of the situation regardless of your/my willingness to accept it. This reality is what President Vladimir Putin discusses and accepts.

The problem for President Trump is not that this reality exists; the bigger political problem for President Trump is that people are increasingly becoming aware of this reality.

Now, many people are recently arguing against this reality. However, these are the same voices who previously stated President Trump could unilaterally declassify information within the same silo process that is designed to control his declassification authority. Empirically, and in reality, these voices are wrong.

Something needs to change. That something is generally that President Trump has to either: 1. admit publicly he does not control the U.S. Intelligence Community (very ugly); or 2. take control of that intelligence community (even uglier).

In this element of consideration you would be well served to insert the recent experience of Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard; who, intentionally or not, opened the pandora’s box containing this issue, and look what happened to her.

There was a reason DNI Tulsi Gabbard sat silently recently in the very public Cabinet meeting. I will return to this in a moment.

[SIDE NOTE: Those who deny this reality are likely of a disposition that reconciled advice by those who said COVID-19 virus could attack you standing standing at a bar, but would not approach you sitting down. The COVID virus would attack you in the paint section at WalMart, but not in the grocery aisles, etc.

Every COVID-19 mitigation pronouncement was ridiculously silly, yet people not only believed it, they followed it. The non-pretending tribe did not.  For whatever reason you might attribute, the reality of that COVID-19 experience highlighted that the non-pretending tribe within American is in the minority.  The pretenders included politicians, healthcare workers, most doctors, police, law enforcement and most Americans (70% vaccinated). END NOTE]

♦ President Trump does not have control over the USIC activity in Ukraine. If he did, he would have been fully aware of the drone strikes against the Russian strategic bomber fleet before it was carried out. By his own admission he did not know.

Prior to the increased attacks, Russian President Vladimir Putin correctly noted that Ukraine does not have the military capability, the satellite communication and guidance systems to continue carrying out strikes deep into Russia. Therefore, from the perspective of Putin, as these strikes continued they were facilitated by NATO. Ergo, NATO was factually attacking Russia, albeit using Ukraine as the proxy for it. Again, Putin with clear eyes on reality.

Into this pretending/non-pretending world, in a remarkable statement of candor we also saw Secretary of State Marco Rubio accurately -and honestly- say five months ago the Ukraine conflict was a proxy war for the USA against Russia.

Now, fast forward to today. The reality is the proxy war, Rubio outlined so eloquently, continues. Simultaneously, neither he nor President Trump has any control over the USIC that is carrying it out. Yet, Secretary Rubio has to sit down with Foreign Minister Lavrov and either (a) be honest, or (b) pretend.

Following the meeting, here is Rubio’s remarks. You decide:

WATCH: Trump’s Hilarious White House Clock Story with Marco Rubio | AC1G

[Rubio brought up a good point. Germany, UK, France and Spain all have Patriot battery’s they can spare. However, they are refusing to give them to Ukraine. I wonder why.]

Back to the point – Again, President Trump and Secretary Rubio seem to have two options: 1. Admit their lack of control, or 2. Take control.

♦ The first option is obviously the easiest, admit the President of the United States does not have full control over the U.S. Intelligence Community.  However, that comes with severe ramifications.

Flip it. Look at the dynamic from the outside. Imagine Emmanuel Macron or Abdel Fattah al-Sisi saying they no longer have operational control over their intelligence agencies, and those agencies have gone rogue. What would you think of France or Egypt?

Now imagine if the President of the USA made such a statement. How would the world react?  What would happen to the dollar?  How weak would President Trump look?

Thus, there is extreme pressure to maintain a premise.

Think about the recent experience of DNI Gabbard, and accept those types of consequences are exactly what the USIC rely upon to maintain their power and control.  Open, even briefly, the Pandora’s Box that hides reality and massive alarms are immediately triggered to isolate, ridicule and marginalize the truth teller.

The people around President Trump have a vested interest in keeping that Pandora’s Box closed.  Which brings us to the second option….  ‘Take control.’

♦ Factually, no one knows what “taking control” would look like.

Who exactly would enforce compliance and bring the USIC to heel?   Tulsi was burned just nibbling around the edge of it. What would be the reaction from the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and more importantly what would be the response from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence; ironically the former silo chaired by Rubio.

Would President Donald Trump reach the same fate as President John F Kennedy?  Perhaps not, if a very public process was instituted where President Trump said exactly what the situation was.  However, that approach simply goes back to point #1.

See the problem?

Let’s talk about Tulsi Gabbard’s silence at the cabinet meeting, and role play for a moment as a Gordian Knot cutter.

Imagine a journalist who says:

Mr. President, thank you for the transparency you provide in allowing us to be with you and your cabinet during these meetings.  If I may ask a question with a brief follow up?

Question: Mr President, do you feel you have full control over the intelligence agencies of our government?

[Anticipated Response]: I think so, at least I would hope that is the case” (or something similar).

Question: Thank you.  With that in mind, what specifically provides you with the sense of assurance you do have full control over the USIC?” … AND… “Would you also permit DNI Tulsi Gabbard to answer that question?

Imagine what would follow that brief line of questioning.  If the imaginary journalist were so inclined, he/she could also follow up with simple examples, like President Trump having no prior knowledge of the Ukraine drone strikes into Russia etc.

My point is that absent of President Trump taking some action that begins the process -against the interests and advice of his protective advisors- it is going to take an external element in this dynamic to trigger a change in the situation; for better, for uglier, or for worse.

The people around the office of the President are not going to want to touch this issue…

….Just ask Tulsi.


43 posted on 07/13/2025 1:55:23 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: BobL

Ho hum.

When I voted it was for Trump to be my President. Didn’t see your name there.

Russia is not so dear to me to abandon the greatest president in my lifetime after a few months.


44 posted on 07/13/2025 1:58:41 PM PDT by Williams (Thank God for the election of President Trump!)
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To: Williams

Soviet missiles in Cuba were a reaction to US IRBMs in Turkey.

Did your history book(s) cover that?


45 posted on 07/13/2025 1:59:10 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: DesertRhino

“...and now they are at their actual existential red line and will not fall back anymore. This means that they are impervious to charm, bluster, cussing, art of the deal, more empty promises, etc.”

Russia has said exactly that dozens of times, even before the election when they said it didn’t matter who won...their policy would be the same.

Russia was hoping for CONCRETE MEASURES by Trump when he took office, like pulling back NATO from Russia’s borders...didn’t happen, so the war goes on. Future promises mean nothing to Russia, since they’ve heard it all before (like “not one inch east” when referring to NATO enlargement), or that there would be good-faith negotiations regarding Donbass after they halted their 2014 military operation in Ukraine.

So...it looks like President Trump is bringing us a new FOREVER WAR!!!


46 posted on 07/13/2025 1:59:57 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Williams

Trump just spent months complimenting Putin and trying to get Russia to work with us.

Oh well.... if he -complimented- him and asked him nicely to do things our way, he surely should have given in! What more could they expect? LOL


47 posted on 07/13/2025 2:00:00 PM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI….There’s really not much to)
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To: DesertRhino

Did you have a point?


48 posted on 07/13/2025 2:01:21 PM PDT by Williams (Thank God for the election of President Trump!)
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To: FreedomPoster

IIRC, we were already planning on removing the missiles from Turkey even before the Cuban Missile Crisis.


49 posted on 07/13/2025 2:02:19 PM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: EnderWiggin1970
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the U.S. political elites promised not to move NATO east into former Warsaw Pact countries. Every time another former Warsaw Pact nation was added into NATO, the Russians complained and the West shrugged off the complaints.

I think the promise was to not put NATO troops/bases in E. Germany and that agreement was upheld.

Those former Soviet satellites sought to join NATO, not the other way around and what logical, rational person with any knowledge of their history with Russia would blame them? They are acting with common sense combined with a strong survival instinct.

For some reason, they want to stay free from Russia and Russian control and seem to think NATO is a better place to be than being a friend of Putin.

I can’t argue with that. Putin’s Russia seems to be hellbent on becoming the Soviet Union again and re-assimilating every former Soviet satellite country back into the fold, as Ukraine is finding out now.

The other countries all know they are next and that NATO is the place to be.

Putin and the Russians are the reason and the problem, not NATO.

50 posted on 07/13/2025 2:02:50 PM PDT by GBA (Endeavor to persevere. Onward through the fog …)
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To: DesertRhino

...and Putin knows that Trump is gone after 3.5 years, so anything involving long-term promises, even treaties, have to be treated as being reversible. Like I said earlier, pulling NATO back would get Putin’s attention and probably lead to the ending the of the Ukraine War, as it would take us time to get back in an offensive posture (while they could get ready too), should we elect another warmonger.


51 posted on 07/13/2025 2:05:07 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Vermont Lt

Do you think we should stay out of other people’s countries and stop meddling in them?

We are up in everyone else’s business while our own country is falling to pieces.

The hypocrisy is fascinating. We have killed off quite a few of our own in wars all over the world when we should have stayed inside our borders and minded our own business.


52 posted on 07/13/2025 2:10:01 PM PDT by dforest
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To: A strike

People seem to miss that point. It is a proxy war.


53 posted on 07/13/2025 2:14:39 PM PDT by dforest
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To: Williams
Trump just spent months complimenting Putin and trying to get Russia to work with us.

Putin and his minions are a bunch of corrupt a-holes.

But so are Zelensky and his minions.

They don’t want peace.

54 posted on 07/13/2025 2:15:03 PM PDT by Allegra (Thank you for your attention to this matter. )
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To: BobL

“Not necessarily against Europe, although Europe needs to BEHAVE a bit if they want us as friends again (during the Cold War they were free countries, now the UK is arresting something like 50 Brits a day for social media posts).”
____________________________________________________________

Europe needs to behave? LOL! It’s the Russians that have threatened Europe and the rest of the world since the end of WWII. Putin is just a better dressed Joe Stalin.


55 posted on 07/13/2025 2:18:31 PM PDT by Bob Wills is still the king
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To: Allegra

I supported Trump when he and JD threw Z out of the White House.

I will support whatever Trump announces tomorrow.

Elected him to make these decisions.


56 posted on 07/13/2025 2:22:00 PM PDT by Williams (Thank God for the election of President Trump!)
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To: Williams

DC loves simpleton followers they can lead around by the nose.... like you.


57 posted on 07/13/2025 2:25:24 PM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI….There’s really not much to)
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To: DesertRhino

🤣🤣


58 posted on 07/13/2025 2:28:00 PM PDT by dforest
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To: Bratch

Great article.


59 posted on 07/13/2025 2:28:24 PM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI….There’s really not much to)
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To: Bob Wills is still the king

“Europe needs to behave? LOL! It’s the Russians that have threatened Europe”

As European countries try to manage their INTENTIONAL decline into destitution, European governments seem to be a FAR BIGGER threat to European people (who complain) than Russia ever will be.

And what the hell does Europe have that Russia could ever want? Another 50 Million angry Muslims, Drag Queens everywhere recruiting their kids, an energy system that’s in the process of crashing. What would be the point of going into Europe for them?

The Soviets were a threat in the Cold War because Europe was a prosperous and nice place...sure as hell not anymore. The sides are flipped now.


60 posted on 07/13/2025 2:29:04 PM PDT by BobL
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