The majority of the Western democracies support the Ukrainian cause: NATO, Japan, S. Korea, Australia, etc. That there are scores of third-world sh*t-holes (Trump) that don't does not elicit a "moral panic" in me. However, I do think that we should impose punitive sanctions upon them, if they trade with Russia.
Tell me, how has Germany benefitted from this?
Don't care. It is morally right to support Ukraine.
Regards,
War at times is a necessary evil.
War is never a moral act.
Ukraine is NOT in NATO. We have no obligation to assist them.
The US and NATO are the world’s most powerful military and military alliance. These nations comprise 3 nuclear powers, have missile defense, and the worlds most advanced technological militaries. Ukraine being in NATO would seriously impact Russia’s security both in conventional and nuclear deterrence.
NATO has more manpower, tanks, fighters, bombers, nukes, subs, carriers, than any other military force on earth, and about (((3 TIMES the manpower))) of the Russian military alliance system and we pretend like they are going to invade us (So stupid it’s funny if people didn’t actually believe this NON-propagandistic crap). Even now with Russian partial mobilization and Russia pumping 7.1% into war, NATO has more EVERYTHING.
NATO has been used offensively in Serbia and Libya. Claiming it’s a defensive organization is factually false.
NATO Has been used in expeditionary campaigns outside of the Atlantic region (Operation Ocean Shield, protector, NATO mission Iraq) so claiming it is geographically limited is false.
No major power wants another playing on their border, the US included. Do you really think the US would allow the Chinese to build military bases in Mexico?
The US threatens the use of force (literally an invasion), when a CIVILIAN Chinese firm operates the Panama Canal (1,900 miles from our border) since we already see this as a threat to our national security!!!
Ever hear about the Cuban Missile Crisis? There are 90 miles of water between us.
Ever hear about the invasion of Grenada?
Do you understand what happened on the Solomon Islands a few years back? We threatened them if they allow the Chinese to build what are essentially civilian/military (dual use) naval ports on the Islands, which would have been extremely economically lucrative for these islands (jobs, massive Chinese investments). That’s 6,000 miles from our Southwestern border.
We are total hypocrites since we would never accept what we expect Russia to accept.
This is a situation where you have a dominant force pretending to be moral and defensive when in reality, they are offensive, expansionist, expeditionary and economically motivated.
Be very careful when you pretend God or morality is on your side: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns#/media/File:WW_II_German_GOTT_MIT_UNS_Buckle_(Wehrmacht).jpg
Russia has been screaming that NATO expansion along their borders is not something they will tolerate. For at least 28 (((YEARS))) Russia has been vocal, repetitive, and consistent about their position. They see it as us breaking a promise and indeed there are arguments that can be made that support this (we just deny this even though the records are a matter of fact).
The idea that we have a moral high ground is false.
At best, we have some degree of justification (on a sliding scale), and to what degree can be debated, but this is surely NOT a black and white issue.
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As to Germany,
This was not necessary: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/
There is absolutely no reason why Germany got tangled up in this conflict other than even in Germany you have economic interests that want to see EU and NATO expand into Ukraine. https://www.ceu.edu/article/2014-12-03/soros-explains-why-he-exerting-his-utmost-efforts-support-ukraine-during: It does not matter if on the conservative spectrum or ultra-liberal, Germany or the US, the same folks you see at the WEF and Bilderberg overwhelmingly agree that Ukraine should be in these organizations because that makes them more money.
The “morality” you’re talking about is all about political influence (EU expansion without a corresponding NATO expansion means the US losses influence), growing government (NATO is like all other government), and a bunch of rich folks that want to see their investments secured and grow (avoid policy fluctuations in trade, taxes, or nationalization), market access, cheap labor, harmonization of policies that make the movement of people, money, capital machinery, products and services easy.
But what has the war really meant for Germany:
-Loss of market share in Belarus and Russia: cars, machinery, chemicals, appliances
-Loss of freedom in decision making: no more hedging Russia and the US
-Increased threat: for German citizens and the military regards proxy conflicts, major theater war, a nuclear exchange
-Significant rise in energy costs: impacting people’s standard of living and Germany’s international competitiveness
The moral / God argument is very seldom legit. It’s a last resort argument (when there is no rational argument to be had anymore) and one that no longer requires any sort of factual/logical basis. One side is deemed bad, the other side good, and that’s it. Turn off brain. At that point you may as well join the Taliban.
There is no morality here, just a bad gamble (we bet the Russian would acquiesce since the cost of physically stopping us would be too high) which our media sells really hard because it was an economic interest our and your big corporations and oligarchs wanted. These same corporations and oligarchs either outright own, or exercise massive influence on the MSM (Washington Post, MSNBC, CNN...). Biden is a Democrat and the MSM (~85%), Hollywood, and social media (nearly a monopoly and Zuckerberg is a big time Democrat) have a powerful pro-Democrat / anti-Republican bias.
The Western media is always highly skeptical of war when a Republican is in office like G. Bush even now Trump bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities. Think about this, very little spent, little to no casualties, done in a single night. A military campaign dealing with a threat we CAN DEFINE/ARTICULATE and the US MSM immediately threw doubt on the effectiveness, necessity etc. of this Iran bombing. But when a Democrat bombs anything, or gets us tangled up in a war, they are foaming at the mouth may it be Ukraine (Biden), Serbia (Clinton), Somalia 1993 (Clinton), Libya (Obama), Syria (Obama)...
Der Spiegel should just come out and say the truth, “Linke Kriege sind gute Kriege.”
This is a war that should have never happened - period. They just try to sell it really hard.
But when the war did start, Germany should have considered not joining some alliance-based war frenzy like in WWI, even if this means NATO is dead because of it.
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