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Is J.D. Vance Right about Europe?
Imprimis ^ | June 2025 | Christopher Caldwell

Posted on 06/27/2025 6:45:40 AM PDT by Red6

The following is adapted from a speech delivered on April 25, 2025, at a Hillsdale College National Leadership Seminar in Kansas City, Missouri.

Vice President J.D. Vance’s first major assignment from Donald Trump was to join a bunch of European leaders who thought of themselves as our close allies—and to read them the riot act. This happened at the Munich Security Conference on February 14. Instead of discussing armaments and armies, Vance said: “The threat that I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe is not Russia. It’s not China. It’s the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values.” Europe, according to Vance, had become hostile to free speech. It was hostile to free speech because it was hostile to democracy. And you could measure its hostility to democracy by the fact that for 50 years European voters had kept asking for less immigration and had kept getting more of it. Vance admitted that it reminded him a bit of the United States.

Is Vance right about Europe and the West more generally?

(Excerpt) Read more at imprimis.hillsdale.edu ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: afd; bureauracy; europe; germany; globalization; nato; vance
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Worth reading.

Has depth.

--

IMHO, the fact that many Euro's see Trump in the negative light as they do is completely understandable.

Even here in the US, we are flooded with one sided reporting which is negative about Trump.

Trump could walk on water, and CNN would write an article about how his feet did get wet after all.

Example: The Iran bombing mission, a peace deal between Iran and Israel, are an "off the chart success" and it's obvious that the MSM is looking at the half glass empty wherever they can.

The MSM, Hollywood and Social Media have a POWERFUL pro-Democrat bias, they champion liberal causes, and Republicans or those on an ideological conservative side of an issue do not get a fair representation by them.

In Europe you get the negative message, and Trump and his folks aren't there to defend themselves.

1 posted on 06/27/2025 6:45:40 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6

‘Is J.D. Vance Right about Europe?’

I believe he IS, yes.


2 posted on 06/27/2025 6:58:31 AM PDT by No name given ( Anonymous is who you’ll know me as)
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To: Red6

You mean the overregulation, the open borders, the link tax, the meme ban, the Digital Services Act, the support for Deep State’s worldwide wasn’t a preview of coming attractions for anyone who cared to look??

The VP isn’t telling us anything the world could have and should been aware of for a very long time.

Our republic has no allies in Western Europe.


3 posted on 06/27/2025 7:03:20 AM PDT by mewzilla (Swing away, Mr. President, swing away!)
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To: No name given

I believe he IS, yes.

💯☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️


4 posted on 06/27/2025 7:05:09 AM PDT by drSteve78 ( Older Je suis Deplorable. Even more so”)
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To: Red6

Germany, France, Britain, Russia and Italy have lost forever their best genetic stock from 1914-1945. Since 1945 emigration, birth control and abortion have prevented any recovery. The pathetic remnant has embraced neo pagan, hedonistic decadence and has comitted cultural suicide. Alien migrants are filling the vacuum. America should not squander human and material treasure entangling itself with Europe.


5 posted on 06/27/2025 7:06:58 AM PDT by allendale
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To: No name given
As J.D.'s Mamaw would say "Effin A!"

As his PI drill instructor would say, "I agree with your Mamaw, Maggot"

As the President would say, "I F-bombed Israel and Iran. So, let's drink a Diet Coke to that."

6 posted on 06/27/2025 7:08:01 AM PDT by RoosterRedux ("There's nothing so inert as a closed mind" )
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To: Red6
Vance said: “The threat that I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe is not Russia. It’s not China. It’s the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values.”

JD is a bit naive about the dangers in Europe.

All countries,(except dictatorships), have internal struggles and can resolve them or morph into undemocratic states. That does not mean that they can forsake the dangers from without. The external dangers posed from aggressive/hostile countries can be a lot more detrimental to a country than the internal struggles. That internal struggles can be dealt with, but those struggles become very moot if the external struggles are not paid attention to and handled. And the dangers from without can be exacerbated by those external forces, which would incite internal disturbances in order to make the external aggression easier.
7 posted on 06/27/2025 7:09:22 AM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: mewzilla
I disagree on that.

IMHO, there is a reason why the AfD in Germany is the second biggest party but largely kept out of policy making and is being pushed down by their intel service and law enforcement.

Romania same situation.

The problem is that in Europe you have more government, more control over the people, and those in power neither want to change course nor share power with those new groups that ARE attracting millions.

But there are a lot of parallels between what is happening here in the US and in Europe. Only there they can really put their thumb on peoples head.

8 posted on 06/27/2025 7:09:45 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6
The EU is not a democracy. It usurps the sovereignty of various great nations.

In many respects the EU nominally operates as a republican structure much like the Senate but with a bureaucratic Deep State of its own.

the EU passed a trillion-dollar stimulus and rescue plan. Although this was meant to be an emergency fund, with no political strings attached, the EU decided to withhold Poland’s $60 billion share, as long as the populists persisted with their immigration and justice policies. PiS was defeated in the 2023 elections by a pro-EU party that was almost immediately able to get those funds released.

No mention of the Euro, which lets the EU print money. Else, it wouldn't have the deep pockets with which to exercise such powers.

The most telling thing about this article is the main cause of these political demarcations within Europe: The word "Muslim" doesn't appear anywhere, but forced Muslim immigration is the source of the principle divide within these countries, and rightly so. Islamists will unify Europe all righty, after they've destroyed them.

9 posted on 06/27/2025 7:25:04 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The tree of liberty needs a rope.)
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To: adorno

What external threat is Europe facing that is existential?

Russia?

The combined forces of the UK, France and Germany (just those three) had more manpower, modern equipment and budget than Russia before this war began.

Now temporarily because Russia has partially mobilized for war they are about the same size as us in manpower at least.

Europe is facing a HUGE shift in demographics, they have a substantial internal security threat, at times their foreign policies are influenced because of the “internal” problems they face from having absorbed millions of Muslims.

Do you know why Spain left the alliance with us in Iraq 2004? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

Europe’s use of law enforcement, the level of censorship, their Intel service suppressing political opposition makes the lawfare and games we play look like a joke!

They more or less deem new political movements and opposition as criminal, in Germany Nazi (of course - in Germany that club is used like racism in the US), or as terrorist elsewhere. That’s not freedom of speech or democracy anymore.

Rome fell from within. When they finally were conquered by an external force in the West, they were already weak.


10 posted on 06/27/2025 7:38:31 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6
What external threat is Europe facing that is existential?

Russia?


Russia 'created' NATO.

Russia has been the reason for why NATO has existed since WWII, Russia is still a threat, aad evidences by their invasion of Ukraine.

Internal struggles within each nation in Europe, or collectively, are not as big a threat as that posed by Russia.

Russia may not be a big threat to NATO, and it's not a big economic power either. But, Iran was/is not a big military power nor an big economic power. But Iran's influence was/is big with it's proxy nations and has posed a big danger to Israel since 1979. Russia is not looking to take over all of Europe now, but it's the ultimate goal. One step at a time. One neighbor at a time. One nation at a time. Empires are not built in one fell-swoop.

At a 'microscopic' level, Russia is demonstration the tactic or method right now; one mile at a time. That's how they aim to take all of Ukraine: one mile at a time, one oblast at a time; one town/city at a time. And before you know it, VOILLA! another republic of the Russian Federation is born.

Internal strife within countries is a very big assistance to Russia and they'll intervene to make things a lot worse in order to facilitate eventual takeovers; one nation, one step at a time. Those that sleep while the enemy is on the move, will not stand a chance.

So, yeah! For Europe, it's Russia, Russia, Russia.
11 posted on 06/27/2025 8:07:14 AM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: allendale

Brutal,

I have have made the same argument.

You can “deplete” a society when you kill to many of their alpha’s generation after generation.

You can have conflicts where you grow and come out stronger from, lessons are learned and develop new doctrine, equipment, experience level of troops, skilled leaders develop and rise, etc.

But when you have huge wars that are extremely casualty rich (millions are dying), where you’re defeated and demoralized, centers of war production are destroyed or go missing, talent in the sciences and engineering flee... these things make you weaker.

Think about this regards Germany specifically (the others are the same boat but have in part different influences):

(1) WWI (2.8 million dead)

(2) Pre WWII exodus by intellectuals (example: Einstein)

(3) WWII (3 millions dead / just armed forces)

(4) Post WWII exodus (example: Werner Von Braun who put us on the moon)

(5) Post war pacification programs

(6) Chopping off Germany’s militaristic arm (where the military traditions predominantly come from) and making that part of Poland and Russia today, Prussia.

We can say the Germany saw about a 46 year period where it was being depleted (1914 - 1960).

We can breed dogs, horses, you name it.

When you have things like what is happening in Ukraine vs. Russia today, you’re doing the opposite of when you’re breeding animals.

You’re taking the most viable men and burning them up.

This “depletes” a society if it goes on to long.

When you have this massive level of depletion nearly non-stop and impact two generations, it’s hard not think this isn’t going to impact a society.


12 posted on 06/27/2025 8:21:24 AM PDT by Red6
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To: allendale
Germany, France, Britain, Russia and Italy have lost forever their best genetic stock from 1914-1945

So what's the deal with USA? We came out of the World Wars relatively unscathed.

But look at us.

Harris got 48% of the popular vote in 2024. And she was the worst candidate of all time.

13 posted on 06/27/2025 8:24:21 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: Red6

Europe is its own worst enemy. So is Canada.


14 posted on 06/27/2025 8:34:04 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: adorno

Russia can’t even handle Ukraine.

If they tried to roll into NATO’s space, they would get crushed even without us.

-

Hint:

The Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union dissolved.

-

Facts:

Russia before the war had 55% of our ground, 47% of our air, and 43% of our naval force.

Now, partially mobilized for war, Russia has about the same manpower we have in it’s armed force. But they will not sustain that long-term. They get the guns vs. butter argument, why they only partially mobilized.

They have 44% our population, and 40% of the men reaching military age.

Russia has 25% of our economy by PPP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP).

They have about 16% our manufacturing capacity: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/manufacturing-by-country.

They spend about 1/7 what we do on defense (even after mobilizing for war and nearly doubling their defense spending since 2021!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures.

They have a smaller and less capable IC: US, (16 agencies, almost 800,000 involved, >70 billion in budget) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community ; Russia (5 agencies, about 300,000 involved, <20 billion in budget) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_agencies_of_Russia.

Russia has an alliance system with 5 other members that are (militarily and economically) weak and mired down with internal issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization We and Europe have the worlds most powerful alliance system, 32 members, 3 of them nuclear powers, 3 of them with force projection capabilities, combined spending over 50% of the WORLDS defense spending: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO.

Russia does not have the high tech, R&D establishment, or number of scientists and engineers we have. Not even close.

-

This Boogieman isn’t real.

Don’t make the Russian threat into a religion.


15 posted on 06/27/2025 9:13:03 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6
They have 44% our population, and 40% of the men reaching military age.

The Russians were never a world power; not economically and not militarily. All they had was nuclear weapons, and to much of the world, an aggressive military with nukes, must be 'respected/. But in reality, Russia has always been a paper tiger.

Number of soldiers is irrelevant when they can be wiped out by air power and missiles and drones and artillery. China has many times the number of soldiers as the U.S. and Russia, and even N.Korea has more men in uniform than the U.S.; but they know that manpower alone isn't gonna win them any wars.

And to support the troops and their weaponry, they also need a huge economy that can support them for the long run. Russia does not have that, and in fact, they're experiencing that shortcoming now with Ukraine. If the war in Ukraine lasts a few more years, Russia will lose and Ukraine will have a victory. Putin is trying furiously and desperately to finish off the Ukrainians, but they can't. Russia is in a bind.

But Putin still believes that he can achieve his goal of reconstitution the Soviet Union, one 'republic' at a time. Putin and Russia have to be taken seriously, even if Russia cannot actually achieve their goals.


16 posted on 06/27/2025 9:33:34 AM PDT by adorno ( )
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To: adorno

No one believes the Soviet Union is coming back.

Out of the post Cold War Russian depression (economic, crime, corruption, loss of prestige: loss of Cold War, military decline) came cries of how it would be better if the Soviet Union were still around, some people look at certain aspects of this era and how great it was...

Did you know Adolf created the Autobahn and our highways system is based on that? Did you know the German “Kindergeld” is an idea from the Nazi’s? People tend to reminisce, looking back and picking one thing and dreaming of the “good ole days,” which weren’t all that good.

“It’s a form of Russian nostalgia” no different than some here look back to the 50s, but it is not truly desired nor is it even remotely possible.

Ukraine will run out of EVERYTHING before Russia.

Maybe you should look at who has partially mobilized 7% GDP and who has fully mobilized >30% GDP for this war.

Who is mostly relying on contracts, reservists, and who is force conscripting folks, running young boys down and hauling them off.

Who is maintaining a budget, and who has become massively indebted and can’t even pay their civil servants anymore unless we prop them up.

Who has seen their economy implode by 30% since wars begin, and who not.

Who has seen massive numbers of people flee the country, and who not.

Who has cancelled elections, banned opposition parties, shut down TV and radio stations, closed down papers, jailed journalists that don’t play along, and who not.

Which nation’s infrastructure is heavily damaged, and who not?

When you analyze something, you usually want to use some sort of facts, things which are measurable, and relevant, to base that conclusion on.

Just saying something isn’t an argument.

Just saying it over and over, or believing in it really hard, STILL isn’t an argument. That just makes you the type of person that might join a group and move to Jonestown in Guyana.

Russia already HAS mostly succeeded, i.e. they have accomplished their political (block NATO accession) and military (seize largely Russian ethnic areas in East) objectives.

It is Ukraine that is the abject loser here (in every way). They lost in ways that even exceed the Russian objectives, i.e. Ukraine will not be in the EU in the foreseeable future (the EU won’t want an unstable and economic basket case).

Continuing this war, where Russia simply grids Ukraine even further down, and Ukraine loses more ground day after day, only means the FAILURE becomes even worse.

As those primarily responsible in the US (the Biden Administration) and secondarily responsible in Europe move on, the door for a peace-deal will open.

Those who were responsible for this war had no interest in ending it since their political existence had become tied to this war. Even if we lost, and we already have, they will simply “kick the can down the road” until they are gone.


17 posted on 06/27/2025 10:34:12 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6; allendale; MinorityRepublican

Yes, I agree, though, just like Mr. Minority Republican has been implying, there might have been different dynamics at work than just sheer loss of life, happiness and property.

Could there be an evil X factor at work, too? I would wager it’s the ideology of leftism…

P.S.: sorry to be a know it all: we lost between six and seven million in WW Two. The losses during the expulsion from the East of Europe had once been estimated at about 2.4 million.

Luckily, that was an overcount, since so many were held back e.g. in the territories annexed by Poland, where they simply couldn’t do without German workers, at least not during the first postwar years…


18 posted on 06/27/2025 10:50:55 AM PDT by Menes (Thank you, America, for giving us hope!)
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To: Red6

A nonsensical question...IMHO

The EU has, over the past 6 decades, lost most of its “relevance”...


19 posted on 06/27/2025 10:56:16 AM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is rabble-rising Sam Adams now that we need him? Is his name Trump, now?)
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To: Red6
Is J.D. Vance Right about Europe?

Hell to the yeah!

20 posted on 06/27/2025 10:56:48 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (Think about it: The Supreme Court is nine lawyers appointed for life by politicians. —David Horowitz)
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