[Seaplaner]

His points are excellent, and his sincerity is obvious.

Ukraine is not an ally.

Why on earth do we concern ourselves with Ukraine's borders when we don't secure our own borders?

Why on earth do we push a nuclear power to come after us when there is absolutely no reason to do so?

This Veteran of the Vietnam War (never boots down, but I took an active part) recognizes foolish escalation and ridiculous optimism. Only this time, the consequences for us, as RFK Jr explains, could be more serious.

[Kudsman]

There you go with common sense questions again.

Somebody wake Joe. He is probably napping again.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

There is also this idea that somehow Ukraine has to win. There are numerous civilizations, empires, states, and cities that cried uncle, declared defeat, licked their wounds, and then survived and thrived.

Fighting to the last man is never a great strategy.

[Cronos]

We concern ourselves with Ukraine's borders for 2 reasons:

1. The USA (and the UK and Russia) signed the Budapest memorandum on 5th December 1994 agreeing to :
   1. respect Ukraine's (and Belarus and Kazakhstan's) existing borders
   2. Refrain from the threat of use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine
   3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the governments of Ukraine

2. Putin has used Salami tactics to

   

   to grab territory - he got Crimea and much of the Donbas already in 2014

   Everyone thought that he would be satisfied - but his salami intentions were clear -- if he got all of Ukraine in feb 2022, he would not be satisfied