[BroJoeK]

ProgressingAmerica: "Theodore Roosevelt founded the Progressive Party, the first major document in U.S. history that calls for a government takeover of healthcare.
That is, universal healthcare to use modern lingo.
Don't blame me for that though."

Sorry, but no, what the Progressive "Bull Moose" Party platform proposed in 1912 was nothing remotely resembling what we today consider "universal healthcare".
What they did suggest was nothing more than a Federal agency, equivalent to today's Department of Health and Human Services which would enforce then existing Federal laws and regulations.

In 1912, TR's Progressive Bull Moosers did not call for socialized medicine, or Obamacare or even Social Security.
All of those came much later and can well be blamed on FDR, but not Teddy.

ProgressingAmerica: "Oh, and Debs wasn't a progressive.
He was a socialist. Next."

In 1912 Debs' socialist party platform included some of the same planks as all the other parties.
For examples, in 1912, all four parties supported ratifications of both the 16th and 17th Amendments.

ProgressingAmerica: "I can see you didn't listen to the New Nationalism speech...

"...If you don't know his positions, you might do well to do more research before picking a hero.
Now, you've read(heard) the platform.
Now, you've heard what he believed in The New Nationalism.
You were saying?"

I'm still saying the same thing -- you're reading backwards from FDR's 1930s and LBJ's 1960s to accuse Teddy Roosevelt of all of their excesses and abuses.

Well, FRiend, anybody can play that "read it backwards" game, so I chose to read backwards from Donald Trump and Ronald Reagan and say "MAGA" and "Morning in America" are really what TR meant by "New Nationalism" and "Square Deal".

These are my guys!

DL, I think we're on the same side of this one and thought you might be interested... 😉

[DiogenesLamp]

DL, I think we're on the same side of this one and thought you might be interested...

I agree. I don't see Teddy as being the same sort of "progressive" as what came later. I think his use of government power was necessary at the time.

[ProgressingAmerica]

"For examples, in 1912, all four parties supported ratifications of both the 16th and 17th Amendments.

This is bizarrely insane. One of those four was TR/Bull Moose Progressive.

Either TR was on-board for the graduated tax, or he was not. You stand on both sides here, attacking at the sheer mention of it but now you admit it. You need to choose.

Am I only allowed to talk about it when BroJoeK approves?

"I'm still saying the same thing -- you're reading backwards

I'm reading forward. From 1900 to 1920. I've been reading forward with these specific numbers for 15 years.