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To: McGruff

First Inaugural Address of Abraham Lincoln

MONDAY, MARCH 4, 1861

“Descending from these general principles, we find the proposition that in legal contemplation the Union is perpetual confirmed by the history of the Union itself. The Union is much older than the Constitution. It was formed, in fact, by the Articles of Association in 1774. It was matured and continued by the Declaration of Independence in 1776. It was further matured, and the faith of all the then thirteen States expressly plighted and engaged that it should be perpetual, by the Articles of Confederation in 1778. And finally, in 1787, one of the declared objects for ordaining and establishing the Constitution was “to form a more perfect Union.”

“But if destruction of the Union by one or by a part only of the States be lawfully possible, the Union is less perfect than before the Constitution, having lost the vital element of perpetuity.

“It follows from these views that no State upon its own mere motion can lawfully get out of the Union; that resolves and ordinances to that effect are legally void, and that acts of violence within any State or States against the authority of the United States are insurrectionary or revolutionary, according to circumstances.”

This is worth reading:
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/lincoln1.asp

But consider Amendment X:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In my opinion Amendment X voids the Articles of Confederation and the preamble of the Constitution for states that are parties to the Constitution.

Texas could file at the Supreme Court a petition for divorce from all other governmental parties to the Union on the grounds of irreconcilable differences.


4 posted on 02/04/2024 5:08:02 PM PST by Brian Griffin
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To: Brian Griffin

A lot of Americans, and not only in the Southern states, did not share Lincoln’s opinion in 1861. The North proved by brute force that a state cannot unilaterally leave. But what if the other states agreed to its leaving?


16 posted on 02/04/2024 5:46:04 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Brian Griffin

Lincoln wordsmiths his way around what he is really saying: the federal government created the states. His sleight of hand is revealing of a slick tongued politician’s ambition, not a principle.


19 posted on 02/04/2024 6:02:20 PM PST by FirstFlaBn
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To: Brian Griffin
““But if destruction of the Union by one or by a part only of the States be lawfully possible, the Union is less perfect than before the Constitution, having lost the vital element of perpetuity.”

Perpetuity was an aspirational word used in the Articles of Confederation. After that first union failed in eight years or so - states unilaterally seceded - a new union was created by the Constitution.

The word perpetuity is not used in the Constitution.

28 posted on 02/04/2024 6:43:34 PM PST by jeffersondem
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To: Brian Griffin

““But if destruction of the Union by one or by a part only of the States be lawfully possible, the Union is less perfect than before the Constitution, having lost the vital element of perpetuity.”

I’m glad Lincoln saved the Union, but he offered nothing of legalities in that speech, merely sophistry and emotions.


35 posted on 02/04/2024 6:54:30 PM PST by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2024... RETURN OF THE JEDI)
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To: Brian Griffin

Abraham Lincoln was not holy and in this case was afu legally.
There is no Constitutional requirement to relinquish a right to reconsideration of union, Especially by states subsequient to the original thirteen.
As a matter of fact there was a situation of some NE states possibly deciding to leave the Union in the early 18teens, this when many original framers were still alive. It was not addressed Constitutionally as it wasn’t even considered relavent, (”Have youse lost your minds,we just said and died to claim our God given right to self determination?)

true today as well re: the totally sovereign Republic of
Texas joining agreement IN ABSENCE OF CLEARLY SPECIFIED indications is VOID of such requirements.


61 posted on 02/04/2024 7:48:51 PM PST by A strike (Words can have gender, humans cannot.)
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To: Brian Griffin
Lincoln is good at citing documents which contradict his position.

"It was matured and continued by the Declaration of Independence in 1776."

The Declaration of Independence asserts an inviolable right to independence for any people (state) that wants it.

It declares it a right given by God, and that people can "abolish" their government, and form one which suits them better.

The Declaration of Independence utterly contradicts the idea that the "Union" is perpetual. It cannot be "perpetual" when every state has a right to leave if it so wishes.

98 posted on 02/05/2024 10:54:48 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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