Posted on 01/29/2024 8:30:02 AM PST by Vermont Lt
A court in Hong Kong has ordered the winding up of Evergrande Group, the world’s most indebted property developer, dealing another blow to investor confidence as China’s ailing real estate sector continues to weigh on its economy.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Berkshire Hathaway?.......................
A Ponzi scheme $300 billion in the hole with no way out.
And you’re right. This is just the first of a dozen billion dollar dominoes ready to fall.
This has been coming since 2021. They owed about $300bn including a bunch in dollar denominated bonds.
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the question is will brandon & yellen (US taxpayers) save the big US Banks holding Evergrande debt (ala silicon valley bank)
The Federal Reserve has the back of large US banks.
If they need cash they go to the Fed window and get it.
We all wish we had friends like that.
;-)
Were they in this? That doesn’t sound like Buffet’s style. I could be wrong.
I think this has been baked into the numbers for more than a year. The bigger concern is it shows how crazy the Chinese economy really is. Internationally, all of this stuff is intertwined—and “When China catches a cold…the west gets the flu.” Ha Ha—we all know how THAT turns out.
bkmk
You would think they would have unwound over the past two years. Some folks in these banks are just stupid.
Around here I see Berkshire Hathaway Commercial real estate signs all over the place but no renters. Big Malls and strip malls store fronts are empty................
No question that China will help. There are U.S. taxpayers still waiting on $1.5 trillion in old Chinese railroad bonds that China hasn't paid a penny on since they became Communist. It amazes me that China has a credit rating anywhere above "Complete Bull Crap" status.
Oh, I get it.
Commercial Real Estate is in the crapper. The whole work from home thing ruined the market. Two decent sized malls in my area have closed in the past year. And the other one that is left, you could use the main aisle as a driving range and you would hit no one.
I have a friend trying to get out of a lease with a guy who has over a million square feet of open space in souther NH. That owner’s debt service must be crazy.
Around here I see Berkshire Hathaway Commercial real estate signs all over the place but no renters
Berkshire Hathaway Commercial is a real estate broker. It does not mean that Berkshire Hathaway Commercial owns the real estate.
Vacancies are an issue in some markets, but just because you see a lot of their signs does not mean BH is in troble.
Could you elaborate on how "China will help."?
On the railroad bonds, they simply refuse to pay, as I understand it.
If China is not willing to have Chinese companies pay valid debts, their credit rating should go into "Complete Bull Crap" status.
Of course, the US government has been propping up the Chinese for about 40 years.
I don’t know if that is ‘good’ or ‘bad’.........🤷♂️
Our Mall, once the biggest mall in the Panhandle of Florida, is nearly empty and will probably be torn down for condos. Part of it already has been.........
I meant that China’s government will NOT help. I then used the example of them not paying on their old railroad bonds as an example that they probably won’t care about Evergrand’s bondholders.
It’s a cancer.
The issue around here is they haven’t been maintaining the facilities. By the time they got one mall sold…it could not be rehabbed. It is getting torn down as I write. They are making a much smaller strip mall there. That will leave about a hundred acres of paved parking lot to decay.
It will be interesting to see how the non-Chinese suckers…. Oops, I mean lenders… will be disproportionately screwed compared to domestic Chinese holders of debt.
It further dumps China's economy into a long-lasting recession.
All money is a claim on debt. With Evergrande collapsing it means that debt will never get repaid - so the claims on it will be worthless - meaning the money supply in China will take a massive hit.
Less money against available goods and services will lead to major recession, or even depression if bad enough.
Ours was renovated just a few years back, new food courts and all. Now they are all gone. Same for Pensacola’s malls, and Panama City too.
The Internet and Amazon has killed off the malls................
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