Posted on 10/26/2023 8:22:18 AM PDT by ChicagoConservative27
We made those countries a permanent part of America?
Putin has no intention of ever letting Ukraine go, and it is only the first step in rebuilding the Russian empire.
Do you think the other countries next in line don’t know what Russia does, these are not evil, deadly dictatorships, they are free countries like Poland Finland, and Lithuania, even Switzerland is discussing joining NATO to protect itself from what they know about Putin’s invasion and Russia’s long-term goals.
Excerpt: “Cuba had built a runaway in the country, allowing for the arrival of “aircraft capable of interdicting U.S. air and sea routes to Europe and the Middle East.””
It’s my understanding that this was a significant part of the decision to invade.
In 1979 Grenada went commie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Revolutionary_Government
Funding it through Nicaragua, the Soviets were supporting the construction of a huge runway on Grenada.
Cuban engineers were involved to build it.
An island with no industry, little to no tourism, a 9,000 foot massive runway which could accommodate bombers that require very long runways was being built.
A bomber like a TU-95 requires a 8,333 foot take-off roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxxSp-V76Do
I’m not an air force planner, rather a ground pounder. BUT, I’m going to make the assumption that may it be the US or Soviets, we probably had plans on what to do with our strategic bombers after they dropped their payload. Meaning they got to land somewhere and they likely ain’t coming back to where they took off from: to far away (range / fuel), maybe to difficult to get back (get shot down), and the base they took off from may not even exist anymore.
I have a suspicious feeling that places like Minot might have survived such an event. Our B52’s might not have the range to get back (depending on where they flew and refueling assets). Trying to get back might have them cross hostile territory and simply risk getting shot down. They likely had plans to take off from their safe place in the middle of the US, giving us some early warning and ability to react, but they likely would not have returned there and the same goes for the Soviets. Grenada, having a Marxist government that’s pro-Soviet (1979), building a huge airfield funded by the Soviets, which can accommodate these bombers and has no real foreseeable economic use for such a huge airfield, probably didn’t set well with us. In case folks forget, Reagan was in office in 1982.
Never forget—the “experts” are idiots:
This is more of that silly Russian Boogeyman junk.
The Cold War is over.
The Warsaw Pact is gone.
Russia isn’t rebuilding an empire, rather they are trying to cling to the little scraps they have left as we tear all the economic valuable (resource rich or agra and industrial) nations out from underneath their control. We don’t care about Chechnya, nor Armenia... but man do we want our hands on resource rich Republic of Georgia, Industrial and agricultural powerhouse Ukraine.
There are three empires today: US (the big guy who is growing by eating the little guy), our true near peer the PRC which is still on an accent and for the time being we are both avoiding a direct conflict, and the Russians which are on their descent (who we are gobbling up).
The PRC was still not a true military and intel near peer when the Cold War ended in 89, but today they are.
Iraq: Russian aligned, major oil producer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq
Syria: Formal Russian ally (naval and air bases), we unilaterally decided to invade, and decided over the fate of their leader Assad. Major oil producer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
Venezuela: Russian aligned, major oil producer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020)
Libya: Russian aligned, major oil producer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya
See a trend here?
Lets talk Facts. Where is this huge vast Russian military?
(Russia vs. the US alone):
55% of our land forces
47% of our air power
43% of our naval power
44% of our population
40% of the number of men reaching military age annually.
1/10 our GDP
Less industry
Less High tech
A largely conscripted military (institutional knowledge is lost with short terms of service and morale tends to be lower)
1/12 our budget for defense
(now bring in our allies)
They have few allies
They have militarily weak allies
Their allies are economically weak (can’t even help them much in those terms)
They have allies that are mostly mired down with internal security threats which do not allow them to do much without risking problems
They do not have a Central and South America like we have and reach back to anytime we need a lot of bodies
(To some degree I understand where you’re coming from)
The Russians like to ruffle their feathers and make themselves out as a global power. They aren’t anymore. Aside form their nuclear deterrent forces which have parity, they are in EVERY aspect (military size and tech, total economic volume, enabling technologies, industrial base, access to resources, population, allies and their capabilities) smaller than us except landmass.
They like to show off these future tanks like a T-14, which aren’t really fielded. They like to show future fighters, which don’t really fly... Reality has them executing a war today with a glorified T-72 which was junk back then and still is in it’s T-90 form. They are riding to war in BMPs 2 and 3s, BTR 80s... They have 1 carrier that is comparable to one of our 6 LHA’s and they have NOTHING comparable to our 11 super carriers (CVNs). They are relying on Iran and North Korea for help in Ukraine because their war industrial base can’t keep up! Think about that for a second.
***You’re trying to make it appear like they are on a world conquest when in reality we’re taking all their prized possessions away from them.***
Try to keep your arguments at least somewhat reasonable / believable.
Going into the realm of fantastical nonsense which fills some current fad of the day won’t build your credibility.
It’s no different than those that screamed 20% of all folks infected with Covid are dying, that hospitals and morgues are over flowing, that we have a shortage of ventilators, need to move our Navy hospital ships into position to deal with this, bla bla bla... It’s nonsense that goes with the narrative of the day, but it was never true, not even reasonable (not based on any real facts), and those who said these things should not be trusted in the future because they are either liars or idiots, but I wouldn’t take any advice from either of those.
Russia being Russia isn’t a theory, we see it every day in the news and the casualty reports during its invasion.
What does that even mean?
“Russia being Russia?”
Russians and Ukrainians are culturally damn near identical. What does that say?
The Russians are Europeans culturally, they stem partially from Vikings (Rus) if you go far enough back, are a Slavic people and Eastern Orthodox.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church
Culturally Russia wasn’t a key player in the Renaissance or enlightenment, but nor were most (Germany, England, France and Italy were). They were however influenced by may of these ideas just like the US, Sweden, Poland or Spain were. Even the idea of communism is originally from Germany (Marx) and Western Europe, not Russia. Their ruling class during the times of kings and queens were intertwined with other European families. Trying to make them out as alien or different (while we ignore our #1 trade partner, a single party atheist, communist, Asia culture based regime) is bogus. You also see this when Russians come to the US or Europe, they assimilate into society easily, quickly and without problems.
If we are to characterize them as a nation, they are in fact much like us, a nation ruled by a small elite (oligarchs), that have a flawed democracy (unless you think a low energy, old, less than charismatic, ugly, stumbling with his words, or even putting his foot in his mouth; Biden, campaigning from a basement actually won 81,000,000 votes, more than Obama). Their ruling elite get the benefit of the government using their intelligence community and law enforcement to their advantage, they do not entirely follow their own Constitution, nor do you have real government transparency. Russia as the US has a religious and urban cultural divide, demographic problems (low birth rates), and increasingly more extreme rich and poor. Yet they are a proud people that are one of the worlds empires, and they are our only competitor in controlling the worlds energy (gas and oil - which the world moves with).
The entire world runs on gas and oil where in the background either the US or Russia control the ground. For example, Saudi Arabia is US; Iran is Russian; Kuwait is US; Venezuela is Russian, UAE is US, Syria is Russian... Even if it’s French (Fina, Total), UK (BP), Italian (Agrip), or Dutch (Shell) firms, they are pumping it from the ground where in the background the US or Russia control that place.
That said, in Ukraine the Western oligarchs decided that they want to take over because it served their economic interest, and we booted the Russian oligarchs. Ukraine is no more “sovereign” today than it was under the Russians thumb. Ukraine is no more “democratic” today than when Russia had influence. In fact today they are probably less democratic seeing how Ukraine has outlawed opposition parties, shut down radio stations, jailed journalists that don’t play along, is using state secrecy to hide politically derogatory information now more than ever, tightly controls their Internet now... Our media simply ignores that mostly (have to support the cause!). Ukraine has a human rights record that is pretty pathetic.
The point is that in this chess game of who controls what, I do not really see a big difference from our motives and MO than those of the Russians.
But, they are the weakest of the three and we have been in the process of slowly stripping them of their sphere of influence, but only where we have an economic benefit.
So let me ask, what exactly does that mean, “Russia being Russia?”
So are Indians and Pakistanis.
One has more Mo-mentum. The other thinks a cow is a god.
That Russia hasn’t changed and it is doing exactly what I said it is doing.
You have some fantasy in your mind that doesn’t match reality, a fantasy that isn’t shared by the many countries including Sweden and Finland and Poland and the Balkans etc, with the full range of intelligence services and analysis and better knowledge of Russia than you, don’t share, they are reacting strongly and expensively to their readings of Russia and the meaning of the current invasion.
What is your argument?
Rus: Russians and Ukrainians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people
Eastern Orthodox: primary religion in Russia and Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church
https://i.redd.it/00b2stm82qe61.png
Slavs: ethnicity of both Ukrainians and Russians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs
DNA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Russians
***Folks like you might want to pretend that people who share the same DNA (Ukrainians and Russians), speak a language that is about 80% similar, pray to the same God, are by definition the same ethnicity and race (Slavs and white), are very different, but they’re not.***
Kinda-
These are culturally instilled hatreds that have less to do with true risks (probabilities and magnitude based on empirical measures).
The Palestinian kid is also raised to hate Israel and Jews... Same thing.
While there always is a historic reason for that hatred, it does not necessarily truthfully define the world in the present day. It’s what we would call a “prejudice.”
***Bottom line: you cannot live in a vacuum of culture and history (of course the past affects us today), but things also change and you should not let history dictate the future thereby creating a self fulfilling prophesy, or maligning resources.
Is Russia a threat? Yes.
Is Russia the greatest threat we face? No.
***But to corroborate what you said. Our own military and intel service which is still very much in step with the Russian threat (many of the folks at the top were raised in that era), will quickly and easily default to what is easy and familiar to them.
HOWEVER, because of the economic interests, political and media influence, we will not see the threat with the PRC even as it breathes down our neck. Our own policy makers will downplay and ignore.
Pure rambling fantasy and self-illusion.
You live in a world of fiction and some rambling romantic past rather than today’s reality in regard to Russia.
It’s easy for us to fall into this.
1. Many of our leaders both in the bureaucracy and politics (McCain, Graham, Grassley, McConnel...) were formed in the Cold War era, it’s easy for them to default to this thinking.
2. The Russians are competitors mostly (oil and gas) and we are in a struggle with them over control of these areas. Russia is significantly weaker than us and this imbalance of power is causing for some interesting decisions on our side.
3. Both sides, Russia and the US, have been pursuing disengagement. While the PRC is doing all they can to engage us, reaching out to our media, paying for the Chinese language programs at public schools, cultural exchanges, bringing key leaders to the mainland all expenses paid, etc. Russia has lost most of their ability to tell their story in the West.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-media-restrictions-rt-idUSKBN1DD25B
Everything you hear from the Russians goes through a filter because their media such as TASS and RT, government websites, even their social media etc. are largely blocked in the US and much of the West. The Russians have no lobbying effort essentially while the PRC hires some of the big guns, such as the Podesta Group.
(((You have an entirely one sided narrative!))) And there are always two sides to every story, even Ukraine today.
Trade between the US and Russia is little and you do not have a lot of US based manufacturing in Russia. While with the PRC if you invoke any sort of trade restrictions may that be tariffs, restrictions on what the PRC may acquire in the US, limiting the use of their electronics for key infrastructure in the US, or limiting what may be imported... you get an immediate and violent reaction by US firms that do the bulk of their manufacturing there: Dell, HP, Apple, Cisco... So you have US HQ’d firms rooting for the PRC. When Trump addressed some to the issues with the PRC (currency manipulation, unfair trade practices, IP theft, them conducting backdoor trade with Iran with things they promised not to sell there) he made himself enemies in big-tech, retailers like Amazon...
4. Most the world thinks tribal, nationally or regionally. Even our Euro allies think predominantly regionally and what borders them, and that’s it. Of course for a Pole the Russians are seen as a big threat, since the PRC is on the opposite side of the planet and no concern to them. (((But PRC is a concern to us!))) While the Poles are staunch allies, they see the world with a microscope. And truth be told, while the Poles and some in the East share your world view, most of Europe does not and that is also why the Germans even 2 years after the wars begin is still not even making their minimum 2% GDP NATO contribution. They know Russia does not pose a true threat to them, they are not concerned, neither is Hungary, Austria, Spain, Belgium, Slovenia, Luxembourg...
https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-allies-agree-spend-at-least-2-their-gdp-defence-diplomats-2023-07-07/ No one believes this Russian threat nonsense except a few for whom the world ends at their border. If the Germans were actually threatened and believed it, they would be doing more than “lip-service” and giving feel good sound bites while actually neglecting their defense.
5. While the Russians are a Euro / Christian culture, there are some differences because Russia is not part of the Western pop culture and media domain. So with respect to some of the trendy issues such as LGBTQIA, climate change, etc. the Russians are not on board. That makes them an easier target since they don’t cheer on whatever fad we’re pursuing that day, example Solchi Olympics where we made it a point to poke them in the eye repeatedly with our homo stuff, us choosing a homo ambassador to Russia under Obama...
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/how-sochi-became-the-gay-olympics/283398/
6. There is still a cultural Cold War reverb. The PRC has been our enemy since they became communists, only we have economic ties with them and mutually benefit from this relationship. However, the PRC wasn’t a real threat to us militarily historically, they first rose to power after the Cold War ended and it hasn’t been until recent that they have begun to spread their wings:
Today, PRC has a presence in Africa: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/16/china-military-bases-africa-navy-pla-geopolitics-strategy/
So as Russia declined, the PRC ascended. But 50 years of being a threat does not simply disappear since since our movies, literature, etc. are still full of this, it is still something people are sensitive to.
We have been heading towards conflict at a minimum since 2014, but Russia is an over exaggerated threat, while the PRC is a downplayed/minimized threat.
Russia is economically not that powerful, PRC is. Russia is militarily not as powerful as the PRC, by a huge margin. Russia while willing to defend themselves, is not looking for confrontation with us, it’s us that is more or less pushing on them even if we don’t want to perceive us invading their space as such.
The PRC on the other hand is the opposite way around, exactly what we did in Ukraine, is what they are doing in Taiwan. Taiwan is slowly becoming part of the PRC because they are basically taking over that island, from the inside out (just like we took over Ukraine). You see, while it’s us pushing on Russia in Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Iraq, it is the PRC that is pushing on us: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/21/china-has-fully-militarized-three-islands-in-south-china-sea-us-admiral-says and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute
It literally does not matter how you look at it, on every single one of these higher moral causes we like to throw around when convenient, the PRC is far worse than Russia. Russia has elections, PRC is a single party communist regime. PRC makes dissidents disappear, has questionable organ harvesting policies, oppresses religion, had forced abortions until recently, internment camps, executes more people than any other nation on this planet, allows for forced and child labor, oppresses LGBTQ rights, occupies Tibet, just conducted a naval blockade of Taiwan (((and our policy makers say little in all reality))): https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fqph.cf2.quoracdn.net%2Fmain-qimg-da0d34f9d0cbb077b5f89deaf5d8637c-lq&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=31821011cf4104fd0c2fe07921037565a05c6a069657c1a4792433d0da3a0b0b&ipo=images In fact, you have Biden (who has taken money from them in the past: https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/chinese-elite-have-paid-some-31m-to-hunter-and-the-bidens/) promising them a return to the status quo soon (post Trump).
Russia has 1 carrier, PRC 3 going on 4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme
Who do you think the PRC is planning on fighting? https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.usni.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F11%2FChina-Carrier-Target-Maxar-1120x630.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=1acb9ac296335c4b5e2da378b13dae7105add4d31e1b3550d13d3bf66981880d&ipo=images
The difference is PRC can challenge us, while Russia can’t. It’s actually us pushing Russia into a corner and then screaming boogieman when they show us their teeth. Whereas with the PRC you have them pushing on us may it be with the Spratly Islands or Taiwan. It’s the PRC that is “expanding” and building bases around the world: https://news.usni.org/2023/08/16/beijing-investing-in-network-of-global-chinese-naval-bases-researchers-find while we’re stripping Russia of what once theirs and pretending as if they are the big threat we face today.
There sometimes is a difference between perception and reality.
It is you who are frozen in the past and unable to deal with the present.
You really need to try and remove your past illusions and try to see things with fresh eyes, as Europe and Sweden and Finland, and Poland, etc. are doing.
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