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To: SE Mom
Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO, and is NOT an ally.

The Ukraine war is a European war that affects Europeans in Europe (and any nation foolish enough to interfere if the Europeans are not all-in 100 percent).

This Veteran took part in that Vietnam kerfuffle some decades ago (started by Democrats, btw), and learned after-the-fact that the process of gradual escalation leads to gradual escalation on both sides, and increases the difficulty of disengagement.

The notion of "assisting" Ukraine with US servicepersons and material escalates tensions and depletes readiness, simultaneously.

"Quagmire" doesn't cover it.

35 posted on 09/24/2023 10:10:26 AM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never...in nothing, great or small...Winston ChurchIill)
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To: Seaplaner

“””Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO, and is NOT an ally.”””

But the invasion war threat from Russia is the reason that NATO exists, and Russia has launched an invasion and started the biggest European war since WWII.

Do you think this could be about Russia.


39 posted on 09/24/2023 10:16:32 AM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Seaplaner

“The notion of “assisting” Ukraine with US servicepersons and material escalates tensions and depletes readiness, simultaneously.”

*************

Also, think about how much China is learning from watching our tactics, munitions, capabilities, etc. This is highly valuable intel for them (all cost free) to leverage and factor into their own planning. Nobody seems to be talking about this aspect of our escalating support for this war.


41 posted on 09/24/2023 10:18:26 AM PDT by Starboard
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To: Seaplaner

“The notion of “assisting” Ukraine with US servicepersons and material escalates tensions and depletes readiness, simultaneously.”

For one thing, we’re not supporting Ukraine with “boots on the ground”.

As far as providing material, the munitions are from older lot numbers that would have otherwise been removed from stocks through decommissioning (destruction), sold to allies, used in training, or refurbished. Even with what we have sent to Ukraine to date, we still have more than enough for wartime contingencies, and training

When it comes to the heavy weapons such as Abrams, Bradleys, Strykers, MRAPs, and M113s all of them are older models, and have been put in storage years ago.

The U.S. Army currently has over 2,500 Abrams in service, with a further 3,700 in storage. A mere 31 tanks going to Ukraine isn’t going to affect readiness.

With the Bradleys, the Army has over 1,400 in active use with a further 4,800 in storage. 100 or so isn’t going to affect our readiness.

Strykers... Almost 4,200, 190 isn’t going to hurt readiness especially when it’s 190 older vehicles that do not have the current double V hull configuration and the vehicles came from a recently reconfigured IBCT that went from Strykers to being a light infantry (airborne) brigade.

MRAP, 12,000 produced and only a few are used in active units. Those used by active units are newer M-ATV. So again not going to affect readiness.

Humvees are being replaced by JLTV with thousands in storage. No affect.

Etc, etc, etc.


110 posted on 09/24/2023 4:26:15 PM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.)
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To: Seaplaner

I agree. My son enlisted after 9-11 and served in the 101st Airborne in Iraq. I will say only this- he would not enlist today. He stays in touch with his combat buddies- none would enlist now.


111 posted on 09/24/2023 4:32:12 PM PDT by SE Mom
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