Posted on 08/24/2023 4:34:15 PM PDT by FarCenter
A new fossil ape from an 8.7-million-year-old site in Türkiye is challenging long-accepted ideas of human origins and adding weight to the theory that the ancestors of African apes and humans evolved in Europe before migrating to Africa between nine and seven million years ago.
Analysis of a newly identified ape named Anadoluvius turkae recovered from the Çorakyerler fossil locality near Çankırı with the support of the Ministry of Culture and Tourism in Türkiye, shows Mediterranean fossil apes are diverse and are part of the first known radiation of early hominines—the group that includes African apes (chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas), humans and their fossil ancestors.
The findings are described in a study published today in Communications Biology co-authored by an international team of researchers led by Professor David Begun at the University of Toronto (U of T) and Professor Ayla Sevim Erol at Ankara University.
"Our findings further suggest that hominines not only evolved in western and central Europe but spent over five million years evolving there and spreading to the eastern Mediterranean before eventually dispersing into Africa, probably as a consequence of changing environments and diminishing forests," said Begun, professor in the Department of Anthropology in the Faculty of Arts & Science at U of T. "The members of this radiation to which Anadoluvius belongs are currently only identified in Europe and Anatolia."
(Excerpt) Read more at phys.org ...
Well if everyone king and pauper, Hitler and Jesus end up as nothing like before birth and human history has no meaning, that’s not a scarynor negative idea? I’m agnostic and nobody alive really knows.
“But believing in a creator that cares about puny earth’s desntiny, much less an individuals, is incredibly far fetched.”
Why is it farfetched? Someone or some thing that can create everything — even the physics we seek to understand — can certainly care about that creation.
Could he also not give a damn about you?
All Democrats are apes while Many Republicans are monkeys.
“Could he also not give a damn about you?”
Of course.
My main concern is most religious people only care about their guilt and resolving all that in an afterlife. The likelihood that there’s either no creator or if there is one actively hates you like a Sims game where you burn them for fun and then discard the is more likely than the obviously false dichotomy of the hateful demiurge of the OT and the caring Jesus of the NT.
If you agree the Bible is wrong on creation, what, makea you think it is right on anything? Blind faith?
“All what time? In the scheme of things, man showed up in milliseconds.”
Exactly right. About 200 thousand years ago out of nowhere the more refined modern man Sapien Sapien appeared and there is no explanation in evolution to explain this. But before that there were genetically primitive modified ape homo variants that led up to the final product. Each stage required a natural genetic process of weeding out the weak before each next stage, We are the final product after these time intensive steps in engineering.
We did not evolve, were were created in stages from apes through genetic engineering. Each engineered product a little more advanced than the last.
White Americans did not come from Europe. If they did then why would white humans even still exist in Europe? In any case it is godless nonsense.
Thanksgiving dinner guest of honor...
I think it’s reasonable to think in the mutiverse model or many worlds Tha thinking there is some thinking creator you’re going to meet after you die. Once you give up on the idea that there is an intelligent design you can move into the more modern physics. Was there a god that set things in motion? Maybe. But believing in a creator that cares about puny earth’s desntiny, much less an individuals, is incredibly far fetched.
I think most people want to belive in a god instead of believing theirselvea and everyone they knew returns to a state of nothing like before you were born. That is the main bias to overcome.
Plenty of advantages of evolutionary advantages to intelligence. And plenty of progressive fossil records between our common ancestors and other primates. Kind of an amazing overobuncance of fossi records on that.
“My main concern is most religious people only care about their guilt and resolving all that in an afterlife. The likelihood that there’s either no creator or if there is one actively hates you like a Sims game where you burn them for fun and then discard the is more likely than the obviously false dichotomy of the hateful demiurge of the OT and the caring Jesus of the NT.”
Hell was created by Man in order to scare and thus control others.
I don’t believe that God created Hell, especially in the Biblical sense. He created Life, and sometimes Life can turn into something terrible, whether by Man or by nature.
“If you agree the Bible is wrong on creation, what, makea you think it is right on anything? Blind faith?”
I did not say the Bible was wrong on creation; I said that the authors could only write about what they knew, which was very limited.
I view the Bible much like Mark Twain did: “It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.”
“Exactly right. About 200 thousand years ago out of nowhere the more refined modern man Sapien Sapien appeared and there is no explanation in evolution to explain this.”
Not true. The fact we share 99% of our DNA with chimps is pretty strong evidence that chimps are our ancestors.
“We did not evolve, were were created in stages from apes through genetic engineering. Each engineered product a little more advanced than the last.”
Created in stages? By whom? And who were the genetic engineers? There is either evolution or someone started tinkering with genetics. Since you seem to subscribe to the latter; who were they?
I tend to go with penn gilletes synopsis of the Bible. Boring, bad story telling and fake. To me it’s a bit like basing society on the 50 shades of grey series. Mostly nonsense and prurient interests.
Hopefully if there is a real mind-God that you somehow see in an afterlife he won’t send me to the lake of fire for questioning his existence. But can you imagine all the human suffering that’s happened over ‘my god is better and more real than yours’?
“And plenty of progressive fossil records between our common ancestors and other primates.”
I agree... But the one thing evolution cannot explain is why and how each time one homo species came about the previous homo species just disappeared almost immediately in the relative time line. Even inbreeding and hybridization does not explain this fact. Each species in the chain had an expiration date to make room for the newer more advanced modified model.
DNA has now exposed this mystery...
“I tend to go with penn gilletes synopsis of the Bible. Boring, bad story telling and fake.”
I don’t agree. I think it full well explains the historical reality if you do not read it literally. It makes sense if read metaphorically rather than literally. Literally it makes no sense at all.
From what I’ve seen there’s a lot of Neanderthal dna and desovian too in non Sub-Saharan humans. Black Africans are quite distrinct from indo-asian-europeans. And aboriginal aussies are so far removed they can barely procreate with outsiders. Mostly have sillborns.
The general genetic and natural evolution of the human species and even ‘breeds’ is plain to see genetically and not just surface appearance
“Hopefully if there is a real mind-God that you somehow see in an afterlife he won’t send me to the lake of fire for questioning his existence.”
I personally do not think He would. He gave you intellect and free will, and I believe He would expect you to use it. And questioning something is one of the best definitions of using it.
“But can you imagine all the human suffering that’s happened over ‘my god is better and more real than yours’?”
That’s Man’s fault, not God’s. Did I mention free will?
In any event, it’s late and I’m an old guy and I am going to bed. I enjoyed the conversation. Thanks.
“Not true. The fact we share 99% of our DNA with chimps is pretty strong evidence that chimps are our ancestors.”
Exactly right, we were genetically modified from apes.
“Created in stages? By whom? And who were the genetic engineers? There is either evolution or someone started tinkering with genetics. Since you seem to subscribe to the latter; who were they?”
Simple... In every historical oral and written tradition including the bible we were created by God or Gods from other worlds and/or dimensions.
Do you mean modified and natural selection or some higher power or aliens doing it?
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