Posted on 08/05/2023 11:08:19 AM PDT by Navy Patriot
Russia said on Saturday it would punish Ukraine for using a sea drone to attack a civilian tanker near the Kerch Strait in what it said was a "terrorist act" that threatened the lives of the crew and risked "a large-scale environmental disaster."
Both sides said on Saturday that a Ukrainian sea drone full of explosives had struck a Russian fuel tanker overnight near a bridge linking Russia to annexed Crimea, the second such attack in 24 hours.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that Moscow would retaliate.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
Remove me from your ping list, you are unqualified to expound about President Trump.
Well let me respond to your assertion:
The massive list of 40 points I made representing Trump’s ultra tough anti-Kremlin policies is perfectly verifiable.
What I said is fundamentally indisputable. And I see you are not saying I’m wrong on that either.
So you and I should celebrate that we concur on those 40 points at least. It’s a start.
What is known about waronfakes.com? A good question with easy answers.
Poynter: How ‘War on Fakes’ uses fact-checking to spread pro-Russia propaganda
"A website and Telegram channel operated from Russia falsely claims to be a fact-checking “an information war launched against Russia.”"War on Fakes was created and run by a Timofey Vasiliev. Who is he?"...War on Fakes claims to be a fact-checking service. “We dissect fakes and give links to rebuttals,” says its description on Telegram. Its website says that it aims to “provide unbiased information” to counter “an information war launched against Russia.”"
"But a review by PolitiFact shows that its “fact-checks” are actually pieces of disinformation that use well-known techniques of Russian propaganda — incoherence, a high volume of claims, repetition and the statement of obvious falsehoods— to confuse readers trying to understand what is happening in Ukraine."
TIME: Unmasking the Man Behind One of Russia's Most Popular Propaganda Channels
"A new investigation by Logically, a U.K.-based technology firm that tracks online disinformation, says the organization has identified the man behind “War on Fakes” as Timofey Vasiliev, a former Russian journalist who has worked with Kremlin-tied organizations and currently hosts a segment on Russia’s most popular state television channel. Researchers pieced together Vasiliev’s ties to the channel when recent changes to the “War on Fakes” site’s registration revealed his name, phone number and email address, they tell TIME."It is telling that the pro-invasion/pro-Russia Freepers are using the same methods as pro-Russian propagandists.
Newsmax, August 6, 2023: Russia Launches Massive Wave of Missile and Drone Attacks on Ukraine
It is telling that your sources are generally state media.
There were at least 20 videos of these fakes at the time.
“...according to the BBC. On that day, Ukrainian authorities had to halt an evacuation because Russians continued to shell the city despite a ceasefire agreement. And on March 6, Russian forces killed four Ukrainian civilians with a mortar as they tried to escape fighting near Kyiv, according to The New York Times.”
I watched videos of this corridor.
Believe who you choose. BBC and New York Sounds are his sources. That tells me all I need to know about you and
your journalist ethics.
Remove me from your ping list, you are unqualified to expound about President Trump.
New York Slimes
“It is telling that the pro-invasion/pro-Russia Freepers are using the same methods as pro-Russian propagandists.”
Who’s “pro-Russia” here? In my case, I’m with Trump and OPPOSE US involvement in this war. If I was “pro-Russia”, I would be calling on the US to help Russia fight the Ukrainians.
When have I done that and likewise, when has ANYONE on FR done that?
LOL!! You're the one that provided the list, and made the assertions about Trump. It's not our comment, it's yours. Anybody can make a list. You don't just throw something out there, claim it's fact, and then expect people not to question it. Just saying it, doesn't make it so. Anyone that has done any kind of serious research, knows that you can't just claim something in a paper, without providing the sources for those claims. The main stream media is a prime example, of an entity that just throws things out there, and expects you accept it as fact. You're the one making the assertions about Trump. Provide the sources for those assertions if you want anyone to think they are credible. I'm not taking your word for it.
Do your homework. Finland has officially joined NATO. Sweden hasn't.
From 14 hours ago:
Sweden's NATO Bid Still Hangs in the Balance Despite Turkish Support
Your comment accusing people who oppose the war as pro-Putin shows just how ignorant, and small minded you are. Personally, I don't give a crap about either country. They're both corrupt, have been for decades, and I hope they destroy each other, before they destroy America. I'm tired of this country fueling another proxy war with Russia, while globalists, politicians on both sides of the aisle, their family members, and their big donors are making millions of dollars. Our southern border is wide open, allowing anything and anyone to come across. Screw Russia and Ukraine. I want my country to survive, and it's not going to happen, when the national security of this country is threatened every day by the Biden Administration. Grow up.
Are you ready for a challenge?
Prove me wrong on one single of those 40 points about Trump.
Just ONE. Can you handle that?
It’s not my list. Its public domain information that is part of american history. No one from any party is contesting those 40 points. Not America, not Russia, Not the Democrats, not the Republicans, not the Biden clan, and evidently not Trump.
SOURCES OF CLAIMS:
Again, what I talked about is common knowledge, pure public domain. Its official information no one is trying to contest in any way.
Just search via Google or Duckduckgo any of the 40 facts I gave you. Do a copy and paste - it takes 10 seconds! You will get thousands of concurring sources in return. All confirming my list is perfect and based on absolute facts.
If you are too lazy to spend 10 seconds. Tell me which ones of the 40 points you want the sources for, and I’ll happily do the job for you. And I’ll send you all the sources you need. Yes I’m a very generous person.
Again there is nothing even controversial about those 40 points. It’s common knowledge and it’s everywhere to be found.
If I tell you planet earth is spherical, will you demand that I send you a source for that obvious fact as well?
Do you need the source that says America was part of the Vietnam war for a while? Don’t you think there is already ample information and proof about that everywhere?
Common knowledge IS commons knowledge.
Yes, when German U-Boats sunk U.S ships after they declared war, to include many tankers, it was a legitimate act of war, same as when we did it to Japan.
While we aren’t a belligerent in the war, U.S. flag ships entering Ukrainian waters or a declared war zone are liable to be attacked. It gets problematic if the attack occurred outside those areas but venturing into the northern Black Sea is a risky venture for any merchantmen and nobody is going to have a lot of sympathy for you.
NO! Do your own homework. I’m not your lackey.
You don’t like challenges ?
That’s not very conservative and American of you...
You’d be better off challenging yourself, to see if you can actually provide complete information for claims you are making.
Its not a question about liking or not liking.
America has obligations when it signs strategic partnerships.
This is what matters:
America signed the “United States-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership in 2008. And we signed the the Budapest Memorandum in 1994, giving Ukraine American assurances to protect its sovereignty from any aggression from Russia.
SOURCE A :
United States-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership
https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/eur/rls/or/113366.htm
SOURCE B1:
Ukraine war: what is the Budapest Memorandum and why has Russia’s invasion torn it up?
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-what-is-the-budapest-memorandum-and-why-has-russias-invasion-torn-it-up-178184
SOURCE B2:
Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine’s
Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons
https://www.securitycouncilreport.org/atf/cf/%7B65BFCF9B-6D27-4E9C-8CD3-CF6E4FF96FF9%7D/s_1994_1399.pdf
United States-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs :
Washington, DC
December 19, 2008
Preamble
The United States of America and Ukraine:
Affirm the importance of our relationship as friends and strategic partners. We intend to deepen our partnership to the benefit of both nations and expand our cooperation across a broad spectrum of mutual priorities.
Emphasize that this cooperation between our two democracies is based on shared values and interests. These include expanding democracy and economic freedom, protecting security and territorial integrity, strengthening the rule of law, and supporting innovation and technological advances.
Stress our mutual desire to strengthen our relationship across the economic, political, diplomatic, cultural, and security fields.
Confirm the importance of the security assurances described in the Trilateral Statement by the Presidents of the U.S., Russian Federation and Ukraine of January 14, 1994, and the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of December 5, 1994.
Affirm the Priorities for U.S.-Ukraine Cooperation (Road Map) signed on March 31, 2008 and the commitments to a strategic partnership made by Presidents Bush and Yushchenko on April 4, 2005.
Section I: Principles of Cooperation
This Charter is based on core principles and beliefs shared by both sides:
Support for each other’s sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and inviolability of borders constitutes the foundation of our bilateral relations.
Our friendship comes from mutual understanding and appreciation for the shared belief that democracy is the chief guarantor of security, prosperity and freedom.
Cooperation between democracies on defense and security is essential to respond effectively to threats to peace and security.
A strong, independent and democratic Ukraine, capable of responsible self-defense, contributes to the security and prosperity not only of all the people of Ukraine, but of a Europe whole, free and at peace.
Section II: Defense and Security Cooperation
The United States and Ukraine share a vital interest in a strong, independent, and democratic Ukraine. Deepening Ukraine’s integration into Euro-Atlantic institutions is a mutual priority. We plan to undertake a program of enhanced security cooperation intended to increase Ukrainian capabilities and to strengthen Ukraine’s candidacy for NATO membership.
Guided by the April 3, 2008 Bucharest Summit Declaration of the NATO North Atlantic Council and the April 4, 2008 Joint Statement of the NATO-Ukraine Commission, which affirmed that Ukraine will become a member of NATO.
Recognizing the persistence of threats to global peace and stability, the United States and Ukraine intend to expand the scope of their ongoing programs of cooperation and assistance on defense and security issues to defeat these threats and to promote peace and stability. A defense and security cooperation partnership between the United States and Ukraine is of benefit to both nations and the region.
Working within the framework of the NATO-Ukraine Commission, our goal is to gain agreement on a structured plan to increase interoperability and coordination of capabilities between NATO and Ukraine, including via enhanced training and equipment for Ukrainian armed forces.
Acknowledging the growing threat posed by the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the United States and Ukraine pledge to combat such proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and dangerous technologies through adherence to international nonproliferation standards and effective enforcement and strengthening of export controls.
Section III: Economic, Trade and Energy Cooperation
The United States and Ukraine intend to expand cooperation to enhance job creation and economic growth, support economic reform and liberalization, develop a business climate supportive of trade and investment and improve market access for goods and services. Recognizing that trade is essential for global economic growth, development, freedom and prosperity, the United States and Ukraine support the following initiatives:
Welcoming Ukraine’s accession to the World Trade Organization on May 16, 2008, the parties held the first U.S.-Ukraine Trade and Investment Council meeting on October 2, 2008 in Kyiv. As discussed at the meeting, the United States continues to support Ukraine’s efforts to implement its WTO commitments. Other areas in which we plan to accelerate our efforts include expanding market access, resolving outstanding disputes and promoting intellectual property rights. Acknowledging the importance of increased investment to economic growth and development, the United States supports Ukraine’s efforts to enhance investor protections.
Recognizing the importance of a well functioning energy sector, the parties intend to work closely together on rehabilitating and modernizing the capacity of Ukraine’s gas transit infrastructure and diversify and secure Ukraine’s sources of nuclear fuel making Ukraine less dependent on foreign sources of nuclear fuel and nuclear fuel storage.
Following the Roadmap of Priorities for U.S.-Ukraine Cooperation, the United States and Ukraine intend to launch the work of the Bilateral Energy Security Working Group. Consistent with the U.S.-EU Summit Declaration of June 10, 2008, the United States and Ukraine intend to enhance a trilateral dialogue with the European Union on enhanced energy security.
Actively developing cooperation with Ukraine’s regions, including Crimea, the United States supports Ukraine’s plan to promote security, democracy and prosperity through expanded economic development, energy conservation, food security, and good governance initiatives. The United States and Ukraine also intend to cooperate in the area of public-private partnerships in regions of Ukraine aimed at supporting small and medium enterprises.
Section IV: Strengthening Democracy
Strengthening the rule of law, promoting reform of the legal system and of law enforcement structures and combating corruption are all of key importance to the well being of Ukraine. We intend to work together to support reform, democracy, tolerance and respect for all communities.
The United States and Ukraine will enhance their cooperation on efforts to strengthen the judiciary, increasing professionalism, transparency and independence as well as improving legal education and improved access to justice for all Ukrainians.
Through enhanced law enforcement and judicial branch relationships, the United States and Ukraine plan to address common transnational criminal threats such as terrorism, organized crime, trafficking in persons and narcotics, money laundering, and cyber crime.
Recognizing the importance of combating corruption, the United States and Ukraine intend to increase cooperation that will expand media and public monitoring of anti-corruption efforts; enforce ethical standards by establishing internal investigation units; and streamline the government regulatory process.
The United States and Ukraine plan to work together to promote reform in Ukraine’s legislative processes through increased transparency, heightened accountability through citizen and media access, and expanded public information about the work of Ukraine’s parliament.
Recognizing the importance of harmonizing Ukraine’s criminal justice system with European and other international standards, we plan to work together more intensely on issues of key importance, including the adoption of a Criminal Procedure Code compliant with Council of Europe standards.
The United States plans to provide Ukraine with further technical assistance to support Ukraine’s efforts through government and judicial authorities to combat human trafficking, including strengthening witness protection.
The United States supports increased assistance to strengthen democracy building and good governance in order to build upon Ukraine’s political progress and commitment to democratic development.
Section V: Increasing People-to-People and Cultural Exchanges
The United States and Ukraine share a desire to increase our people-to-people contacts and enhance our cultural, educational and professional exchange programs that promote democracy and democratic values and increase mutual understanding.
Recognizing the vital importance of increased contact between the people of the United States and Ukraine, both sides intend to promote further cultural and social exchanges and activities through initiatives such as the Fulbright program, Future Leaders Exchange Program (FLEX), Undergraduate Exchange (UGRAD), Legislative Education and Practice (LEAP), the International Visitor Leadership Program, the English Language Teaching and Learning Program and the Open World Program.
Stressing the necessity of innovation and dynamism to the future of our two countries, the United States and Ukraine intend to promote increased cooperation in higher education and scientific research. The United States will facilitate these exchanges consistent with U.S. laws and procedures so that qualified individuals in cultural, educational and scientific activities are given the opportunity to participate.
Our two countries will continue to cooperate closely to promote remembrance and increased public awareness of the 1932-33 Great Famine (Holodomor) in Ukraine.
Ukraine welcomes the United States’ intention to establish an American diplomatic presence (American Presence Post) in Simferopol.
I'm supposed to care about a Charter that George W. Bush agreed to one month before he left office? And I'm supposed to care about a memo that Bill Clinton signed less than a year after he took office? None of that crap matters to me when my own country is being destroyed from the inside, in the meantime. All this conflict is doing, is corrupting this country more than it already is. Why should American taxpayer dollars (including military weaponry), be sent to any foreign country without it being mandatorily accounted for on the other end? The fact that there is no checks and balances on that money or weaponry, tells me it's nothing more than a scam to put money in people's pockets.
What is the national security interest for the United States in fighting another proxy war with Russia in Ukraine? We've been fighting proxy wars with Russia and China since the Korean War. That's 73 years. When is it going to stop? None of those proxy wars we fought ever stopped the commies from setting up shop here in the U.S. The 2020 election fraud shows me they've been successful in their silent invasion, and it ain't over yet.
We shouldn't even be in NATO today. We can't protect our own borders, or American Citizens from the slime coming across the border, and we're supposed to be worried about what's going on between Ukraine and Russia? This is Europe's problem. Let Europe handle it, and pay for it. Go fight and shed your own blood to defend Ukraine if it's so important to you, but don't expect the average American citizen to foot the bill.
You failed to mention the Bush presidencies and Iraq. It was Bush 2 and VP Cheney who tricked us back into Iraq in 2003 when we should have stuck with the war in Afghanistan, which may have contributed to the failures of both wars.
War is not a game, and I know I was very nervous when my son (now retired) was sent to Gulf War 1, as a paratrooper in Aug. 1991, and twice to Afghanistan with Special Forces after 2005. One granson has already completed an enlistman, another is now serving as a Medic, and a third is negotiating an enlistment. The last grandson is still in high school, and I certainly hope this war promoted by Putin is over by the time he graduates and does not spread wider as seems to be suggested by Belarus behavior toward Poland.
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