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Ukrainian Troops Trained by the West Stumble in Battle
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/ukraine-troops-counteroffensive-training.html ^ | Aug. 2, 2023, | Eric Schmitt and Helene Cooper

Posted on 08/02/2023 12:14:40 PM PDT by Mount Athos

The first several weeks of Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive have not been kind to the Ukrainian troops who were trained and armed by the United States and its allies.

Equipped with advanced American weapons and heralded as the vanguard of a major assault, the troops became bogged down in dense Russian minefields under constant fire from artillery and helicopter gunships. Units got lost. One unit delayed a nighttime attack until dawn, losing its advantage. Another fared so badly that commanders yanked it off the battlefield altogether.

The complicated training in Western maneuvers has given the Ukrainians scant solace in the face of barrage after barrage of Russian artillery.

Biden administration officials had hoped the nine Western-trained brigades, some 36,000 troops, would show that the American way of warfare was superior to the Russian approach.

But the Western-trained brigades received only four to six weeks of combined arms training, and units made several mistakes at the start of the counteroffensive in early June that set them back.

Some units failed to follow cleared paths and ran into mines. When a unit delayed a nighttime attack, an accompanying artillery bombardment to cover its advance went ahead as scheduled, tipping off the Russians.

In the first two weeks of the counteroffensive, as much as 20 percent of the weaponry Ukraine sent to the battlefield was damaged or destroyed, according to U.S. and European officials.

But analysts question whether this second wave, relying on attacks by smaller units, will generate enough combat power and momentum to allow Ukrainian troops to push through Russian defenses.

Gian Luca Capovin and Alexander Stronell, analysts with the British security intelligence firm Janes, said that the small-unit attack strategy “is extremely likely to result in mass casualties, equipment loss and minimal territorial gains” for Ukraine.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; Ukraine
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1 posted on 08/02/2023 12:14:40 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Mount Athos

.


2 posted on 08/02/2023 12:15:23 PM PDT by sauropod (Sun Tzu: “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting”)
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To: Mount Athos

4-6 weeks training for conscripted troops going into hot battle against dug in defensive troops…
USAF Basic is 7 weeks…


3 posted on 08/02/2023 12:17:58 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: Mount Athos
Apparently, whomever trained these troops left out leadership training for the officers/NCOs. You know, like conducting night attacks at night - or coordinating supporting arms with the maneuver unit.

Or the use of the M58 Mine Clearing Line Charge. M58 MCLIC

4 posted on 08/02/2023 12:32:41 PM PDT by Chainmail (How do I feel about ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.)
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To: Mount Athos

Stumbled?

The mine fields cover miles and miles in depths of up to a mile - one does not just go around them one has to clear and go through them. That takes time.

Not discussing the vast extent of the mine fields and the vast layered defense fortifications, makes this a hit piece and propaganda.


5 posted on 08/02/2023 12:32:50 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Mount Athos

Propaganda has a limited time of effectiveness before reality over takes it. The Ukraine is dead. Stick a fork in it.


6 posted on 08/02/2023 12:36:59 PM PDT by wildcard_redneck (The Forever War is a crime against humanity)
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To: Mount Athos

Guess you missed the news that Ukrainian forces broke the Ruzzian lines and advanced five kilometers. Ruzzia isn’t doing so great against those poorly trained Ukies.


7 posted on 08/02/2023 12:39:06 PM PDT by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism. )
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To: Mount Athos

It’s unconscionable we are exploiting these people in this neocon proxy war they have no chance of winning. We are sending them to certain death for no other reason than to screw with Russia. Sickening.


8 posted on 08/02/2023 12:42:14 PM PDT by jimwatx
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To: Mount Athos

The first several weeks of Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive have not been kind to the Ukrainian troops who were trained and armed by the United States and its allies.
——————-

“ not been kind” - a slaughter with US and collective West war machines lying in burning heaps! ….and finally acknowledgment from a western source, no less.

I would love to hear the duped war cheerleaders comments….


9 posted on 08/02/2023 12:48:31 PM PDT by delta7
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To: Mount Athos
Biden administration officials had hoped the nine Western-trained brigades, some 36,000 troops, would show that the American way of warfare was superior to the Russian approach.

My understanding is that the Western/NATO tactics assumes that they are attacking with at least artillery parity and air-superiority - which doesn't exist at all for Ukraine.

But training on anything else, especially tens of thousands of troops on a mass scale, is impossible, since NATO itself has not worked out what it would do under present conditions. Basically, you go with what you got.

Would welcome any comments/corrections from experts

10 posted on 08/02/2023 12:57:04 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: Mount Athos

Must have tripped on their skirts.


11 posted on 08/02/2023 1:00:48 PM PDT by mass55th (“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ― John Wayne)
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To: PIF

“Not discussing the vast extent of the mine fields and the vast layered defense fortifications, makes this a hit piece and propaganda.”

The only reason everyone says they are not proceeding as expected, is because NATO and the Pentagon set completely unreasonable expectations.

They set the expectation in media and Ukrainian partisans that 8 weeks of training on new equipment (most can’t even read the English manuals...or German etc.) and tactics, in addition to a all new team of people, that they would perform like an American armored brigade.

And they would do so without air cover.

Entirely unreasonable, and set up Ukraine to appear as failures for not doing something nobody, nobody could do.


12 posted on 08/02/2023 1:06:22 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: PIF

The mine fields cover miles and miles in depths of up to a mile - one does not just go around them one has to clear and go through them.
———
Let me set the record, today’s minefields are not yesterdays, one type can be deployed by artillery cargo rounds, at will. Vlad’s military has the known strategy of deploying mines ( as we do) by artillery, when the Ukies run into them and retreat, he sends more into their rear, by artillery in front of their retreating forces. That is called modern warfare. There is plenty of video evidence, and a Vlad is not short of these “ 152mm projectile cargo mines”, nor is the West. Look up our M42/ M62 personnel and anti- armor bomblets.


13 posted on 08/02/2023 1:10:39 PM PDT by delta7
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To: Mount Athos

S..t happens.


14 posted on 08/02/2023 1:11:13 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer” )
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To: Mount Athos

“But analysts question whether this second wave, relying on attacks by smaller units, will generate enough combat power and momentum to allow Ukrainian troops to push through Russian defenses.”

To repeat an old quote: “You hit somebody with your fist and not with your fingers spread.”


15 posted on 08/02/2023 1:17:11 PM PDT by rxh4n1
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To: PIF

Best of luck to you and your fellow Neocons, but the reality right now points to Trump and those who want peace.


16 posted on 08/02/2023 1:18:32 PM PDT by scottinoc
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To: delta7

Here is what we gave to the Ukies, Vlad has millions more. Read the article for an understanding of today’s air deployment of mines.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/02/12/ukraines-new-anti-tank-tactic-lay-a-minefield-then-scatter-more-mines-from-the-air/?sh=5aa5172855e3


17 posted on 08/02/2023 1:18:40 PM PDT by delta7
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To: Mount Athos

Pussy riot commie libs

Wood chipping ukraine

The whole world

doesn’t want post civilization decadent diversity


18 posted on 08/02/2023 1:28:56 PM PDT by Firehath
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To: Mount Athos

Probably trained by the finest in woke minds the military has to offer I’ll bet.


19 posted on 08/02/2023 1:38:30 PM PDT by ducttape45 (Proverbs 14:34, "Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.")
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To: mass55th

After training, most immediately sought abortions and transgender surgery at government expense.


20 posted on 08/02/2023 1:43:32 PM PDT by brookwood (To achieve equity, the percentage of whites in prison must equal the percentage of blacks in prison)
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