[hardspunned]

I always question inflated casualty figures from both sides. This, I believe, is a first. We have both state propaganda organs agreeing on the losses suffered in the counteroffensive. 30% total losses before the counteroffensive was shut down! One would assume since it took so long to assemble the force of new NATO equipment that this wasn’t the old Soviet stuff.

[cabojoe]

Ukrainian vs. Russian Artillery + US Buying Taiwan's Hawk Missiles for Ukrainian Air Defense...New Atlas w/Brian

For your Sunday viewing pleasure. Good program.

[Timber Rattler]

Well, let's look at what the actual New York Times article says, rather than through the TASS filter:

After Suffering Heavy Losses, Ukrainians Paused to Rethink Strategy

The Bradleys have done part of their job well; their thick armor has provided good protection for most soldiers, who have survived many of the mine blasts with few injuries.

“Your ears ring and things inside fly around,” said one soldier, who asked to be identified only by his first name and rank, Pvt. Serhiy. He survived such an explosion last month in fighting south of the town of Orikhiv in the Zaporizhzhia region.



Ukraine’s 47th Mechanized Brigade, one of the three Western-equipped and trained units that were deployed early in the campaign, was set to receive 99 Bradleys, according to the leaked U.S. military plans for the counteroffensive from February — still the most recent that have been made public.

Data from Oryx, a military analysis site that counts only losses that it has visually confirmed, show that 28 of those Bradleys have been abandoned, damaged or destroyed, including 15 in a village in Zaporizhzhia Province on June 8 and 9 as the 47th was attacked by helicopters while trapped in a minefield. The Oryx data show that only 24 tanks were lost for the entire month of June, including some from Ukraine’s own arsenal in addition to those supplied by Western allies.

Ten of them were German-made Leopard tanks and mine-clearers, the data show. Presumably, they were lost in battle with Ukraine’s 33rd Mechanized Brigade, one of the three units deployed early in the counteroffensive, and which was slated to receive 32 Leopards in the U.S. planning documents from Feb. 28.

Soooo...in the grand scheme of things, the losses are actually minor for a war of this size and scale, and considering how few Western tanks and armored vehicles have actually been sent to Ukraine. And those that have arrived on the battlefield are doing their jobs in saving Ukrainian solders' lives.

Remind me again how many thousands of tanks and other vehicles the Russians have lost?

[Old Retired Army Guy]

Time for the Ukraine and Russia to start peace talks even if it means Ukraine will have to give up some of its’ lost territory including Crimea and Crimea access routes.

[Steven Tyler]

My conspiracy theory guess.
Add the new stuff (Leporad tanks) 20%, to the old rusted soviet era stuff 80%.

Roll out the new stuff for the counter offensive.
Watch the Russia defense smash and vaporize the new stuff.

Stop counter offensive and claim only 20% of your stuff was lost

[Gen.Blather]

There was a scene in a movie, I think it was “Patton.” A reporter is needling the general. The general says something like, (numbers made up)”I know this. For every attack I’m losing between fifteen and fifty men per hour. We’re losing a tank every forty minutes. We’re burring eight thousand gallons of fuel and we have to evacuate one hundred and fifty wounded. Of that half will die.” The point is war costs casualties, equipment and ordinance.

America fought a series of mostly bloodless (from the American standpoint) wars. The public got used to the idea that war was a videogame. It isn’t. The war in Ukraine is more like a combination of WWI and a HighTech game with real deaths.

We were so eager to accept the “peace dividend.” The militaries were cut across the globe. War was a thing of the past. Except every time the price of oil was high, Russia invaded somebody. Not so much driven by available cash from oil, China rolled over former borders and used “soft power” to salami-slice territory from (19?) neighbor states.

War is alive and well and we’d better start building equipment and forces with that in mind.

[Pete Dovgan]

The Ukraine war uses munitions at an incredible rate. Luckily, the old Soviet Union and its Allie’s were prepared for this type of conflict. As long as Ukraine fights Russia playing to Russia strengths people will die and the war will continue. Ukraine needs air superiority over the battlefield to break through. Likely, as Ukraine tires, combat aircraft will be inevitable, or….

If Ukraine can’t free itself and it’s lost territory,, I expect another solution as Biden leaves office. Divided Ukraine probably best served by Polish annexation of the free part. That will make it NATO territory. Putin will have placed his nation on the cusp of ultimate failure, lost all of his buffer ground, and enhanced failing NATO to make it unified and viable. Stupid war, stupid prizes.

[Uncle Lonny]

A successful Ukrainian counter offensive against dug in Russian defense is a mission impossible. They would need huge air superiority to win which they dont have.

Remember the US had absolute air and navy firepower superiority at Iwo Jima in WW II and still it took a month to take that small island from dug in Japanese troops.. Over 3 months at Okinawa.Both with high American casualties

These are the reality that Ukraine is facing.

I support the Ukrainian peoples fight against the brutal invasion of the Russian Army but pursuing this counter offensive will only make Russia stronger. If there is a cease fire it would give Ukraine more time to build an airforce and ground forces to ensure that Russia could not restart their invasion.

Ukraine may have to give up their claim to Crimea to get Russia to withdraw from the other occupied parts of their country. But that is better than a continued futile charge against dug in Russian forces, with huge losses for little gain.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- You were "answered" in part by some one as follows -- "Data from Oryx, a military analysis site...."

One observes that Oryx is 1) a Netherlands-based web site run by to amateurs, 2) was the primary first citation by "speedyintexas" for months as his enthusiasts cheered and detractors noted. One also notes that this Freeper is not posting the daily Oryx anymore for some reason.

One observes that Oryx's "contact" page shows no snail-mail address, but only a Gmail and Twitter contact.

Source: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/p/contact.html

Their Facebook link goes to their North Korea blog. And they -- -- operate a YouTube channel, "Oryx Blog. Authoring: The Armed Forces of North Korea, on the path of Songun." 13 Videos and ~60K views since 2014.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqUJaJJWQusy1hvBQXrV3w/videos

Wiki says: "Oryx, or Oryxspioenkop, is a Dutch open-source intelligence (OSINT) defence analysis website, and warfare research group. It is run by Stijn Mitzer and Joost Oliemans."

And "On 19 June 2023, Oryx announced that the blog would be ended on 1 October 2023. In the statement posted on Twitter, Oryx explained that the blog had been created a decade earlier "out of boredom", and that the project – which had been conducted "in our free time" and without any pay – had turned into an "all-consuming project" that had not resulted in any jobs and which "just doesn't make me happy anymore".[21] In a follow-up statement, Oryx clarified that the list covering losses in Russia's invasion of Ukraine would continue to be updated until the end of the war by long-time contributor Jakub Janovsky and the OSINT group WarSpotting."

One learns they post in "English (primary), Turkish, Japanese and Afrikaans."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryx_(website)

As to "WarSpotting," one reads on their site: "Can your data be trusted? No it can't. Photos can be forged or misattributed. On top of that amount of photos available online nowhere near reflects actual losses. Even so, it might still be closer to reality than any claims being made by any official across the board." Source: https://ukr.warspotting.net/about/

One notes additionally that their address refers to the UK. And yet they publish in two languages: English and Ukrainian. So the above quote is rendered also: "Вашим даним можна довіряти? Ні, не можна. Фото можуть бути підроблені або розпізнані помилково. До того ж сукупність фото, що доступні онлайн, не відображають реальних втрат повною мірою. Але навіть не зважаючи на ці недоліки, наші дані можуть бути ближчими до реальності, ніж ті чи інші офіційні заяви."

Source: https://ukr.warspotting.net/uk/about/

From them, one finds podcasts as well: "Analyst sheds light on Ukraine and challenges in OSINT"

Source: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/analyst-sheds-light-on-ukraine-and-challenges-in-osint/

So the overall game is pass-through. As was commented to you: "Well, let's look at what the actual New York Times article says, rather than through the TASS filter...." What the ACTUAL NY Times article says quotes Oryx in the Netherlands. "Well, let's look at what the actual New York Times article says, rather than through the TASS filter,,,," So believe Oryx because the NY Times passes through the information.

But recall the comment from an Oryx-related fellow as cited above -- "Can your data be trusted? No it can't."

Then think of the Pelosi advice about the so-called "Wrap up smear." Fact-checked in years of articles and "taken out of context" and all, it is "you have the press write about it. And then you say, everybody is writing about this charge."

So because it's in the NY Times.... From Oryx in the Netherlands. And furthered by Ukrainian, as well as other languages, It comes to this, in the words of these "experts."

"Can your data be trusted? No it can't. Photos can be forged or misattributed. On top of that amount of photos available online nowhere near reflects actual losses. Even so, it might still be closer to reality than any claims being made by any official across the board."

Might be. Could be. Claims and claims being made.

I validate your "I always question inflated casualty figures from both sides." Wise.

[butlerweave]

A taste of what the Russians were getting ,what fool ordered this ?

[lonestar67]

Tass?

Truly pathetic.

[redfreedom]

Ahhh! The Sunday morning propaganda wars. I read through many posts for entertainment.

It’s amazing the amount of pro-globalists there are on this board, those that want to keep spending US dollars we don’t have and sending away military equipment we cannot afford to lose. It’s a Euro war, it should be kept that way with us completely out of it.

[Widget Jr]

Russia had 3,400 front line tanks before the war. They have lost over 2,000, 60%. Between losses, captured vehicles, and foreign replacements, Ukraine now has 1,400 to Russia's 1,300 tanks. Ukraine has more tanks than Russia. Before the war no one thought that could happen.

This is not the mythological Russia of WW-II or the Cold War. It is the Russia after 20 years of Putin's kleptocratic rule. Sanctions have reduced parts imports Russia needs to build modern tanks. The reality is, Ukraine is better able to make good on its losses than Russia.

Ukraine is taking casualties. When it comes to casualties and losses, Ukraine doesn't talk and Russia lies. Russia has consistently had several times Ukraines losses, otherwise Russia would have already won.

[Sertorius]

Wonder what the internet would look like during the losses of our Civil War.

[Dandy]

So they lost 20% on the offensive and got half of them back when they quit attacking. So they need to just stop for a while until all their stuff comes back. Kinda reminds me of my stock portfolio. Still waiting.....

[csvset]

Hillary: I would have been in Moscow by now, stupid diversity hire !

Obama: Hunter is asking for more coke and Joe wants little girls . We can’t meet the demand.

[samiam5]

Ukrainian vehicles explode Russian mines, rendering them useless!
/zeeper