Posted on 07/11/2023 2:18:30 PM PDT by Mariner
Ukraine has waited for an invitation to NATO for years. Long before 2022's Russian invasion, and even before Moscow claimed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula in 2014, Kyiv has sought to join the West's premier military alliance. And NATO, for its part, has sought to welcome Ukraine into its ranks—eventually.
In 2008, at a gathering in Bucharest, the alliance promised Ukraine could someday become a NATO member. "NATO welcomes Ukraine's and Georgia's Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO," said a statement from NATO leaders. "We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO," and "we make clear that we support these countries' applications" for the membership process.
This week, as alliance leaders assemble once more, Ukrainian accession to NATO has yet to be realized. And after a year and a half of war on Ukrainian soil, the question of bringing Kyiv into the NATO fold is more pressing than ever: Should NATO make good on its promise? Should Ukraine become a formal NATO ally instead of a unique recipient of members' largesse?
...snip...
Indeed, the position in which NATO's 2008 promise has put Ukraine these last 15 years is arguably the worst-case scenario, bestowing all the danger that comes from stoking Russian fears of NATO expansion and none of the advantages of the alliance. It's a promise that should never have been made and which, if now fulfilled, is unlikely to work in Ukrainians' favor—or ours.
(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...
More and more conservatives are beginning to see the light. And more and more of them are willing to suffer the arrows to say so publicly.
Soon, the dam will crumble.
“”Major powers never calmly accept the close approach to their borders of unfriendly powers or alliances,” as MIT political scientist Stephen Van Evera wrote in an explainer for Defense Priorities (a think tank where I am a fellow) shortly before the 2022 invasion. In this, “Russia is no exception,” he continued. “It will not accept a settlement that leaves open the possibility of Ukraine in NATO or NATO in Ukraine.”
Russia will use all the power at its disposal to prevent this from happening. So the advocates have to be ready to fight existential nuclear war...over friggin’ Ukraine.
But Russia didn’t make a mistake invading Ukraine?
So, you think the U.S. should try to dominate other countries?
NATO Made a Mistake by Promising Membership to Ukraine
No, the mistake was that Ukraine trusted Biden and his NATO Cronies.
After all the millions of dollars Biden grifted from this country, he is now betraying them.
Remember that famous line from Animal House? “You f—d up. You trusted us.”
I have posted the same, there is a reason the Ukies have not been admitted to NATO or EU since their “ birth” in 1991….poverty level, massive corruption, debt defaults, etc….
That said, there never has been an offer for admission, only suggestions by those not in authority to grant it…false hopes….they continue to this day solely, it appears, to try and convince Ukraine (to the last Ukrainian thingy) to bleed Russia, and then maybe, just maybe they will start the lengthy process.
Fact is, Ukraine, and the collective West is being drained. If I was a betting man, I think Ukraine is going to get “ Afghanistanned” by boomerang Joe and his war cheerleaders.
“But Russia didn’t make a mistake invading Ukraine?”
That has nothing to do with the pursuit of US interests.
I think the US should pursue it’s worldwide interests with cost/benefit analysis.
The United States has no obligation to help Russia in their nation building.
Hold on, you mean to tell me that my hesitation to jump into a nuclear war with Russia over the garbage country of Ukraine DOESN’T make me a Putin-Puffer??!?? /SARC
While various FR folks have varying views, pro-Z, pro-P and "not my circus" for a number of reasons, one thing is very likely.
We KNOW that the princelings of Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and chums of Romney were deep in the extraction of huge sums of money from a nation with the per capita income of the average Ukie of less than 10K USD per year. Ukraine was being raped with corruption, and I wager that "exposing the receipts" of all the corruption hidden so far from our eyes includes many elite Europeans, alongside "our" set of profiteers.
It seems very likely that some portion of the billions in "aid" is being siphoned of as well, while ordinary Ukrainians get zilch except a hole in the head followed by a hole in the ground.
Existential? It is indeed existential, should the proof of fiscal crimes come out the end of this sordid tale. Biden's corruption is being uncovered now, but I think there is far, far more to be found out in time.
“The United States has no obligation to help Russia in their nation building.”
The US government absolutely has an obligation to pursue the best interests of the American people.
And that means cutting Ukraine loose to face its fate.
“The United States has no obligation to help Russia in their nation building.”
Or Ukraine’s.
I think the US should pursue its worldwide interests with cost/benefit analysis.
———
Sorry I have to jump in. Cost/ benefit analysis??? How about something not as complicated and just heed our Founding Fathers Warning about the dangers of getting entrenched, entangled, in foreign interests and wars?
All of the US’s meddling in foreign wars and interests has cost us dearly….we were warned more than once….and here we are.
”Major powers never calmly accept the close approach to their borders of unfriendly powers or alliances”.
(Snip)
“Russia is no exception”
********************************************
Add: Russia has raised the art of Paranoia to a high level.
Not without reason - Napoleon, Hitler.
Both
And the idiot Biden going “Sure, Ukraine can join NATO, as soon as the war with Russia is over”.
Uhm, what if Russia wins, therefore Ukraine isn’t Ukraine, but Rus-kraine?
I suspect lots of information will flow, like the explosion of Nordstream 2 or the Dneiper Dam.
Consider: " Zelensky's falsified charity fund UNITED24: who and where does the your money go?"
Source: https://www.voiceofeurope.com/zelenskys-falsified-charity-fund-united24-who-and-where-does-the-your-money-go/
Website operator is in Letňany, Czech Republic, and publishes in English, German and Spanish. Links with Twitter, Facebook.
Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe with a per capita GDP of $14,300, just $100 more than Cuba's. We have sent close to $200 billion to Ukraine with no ability to audit where the money is being spent. We fund the entire government of Ukraine including pensions. All of this money has to be borrowed as the US is on track this calendar year to incur a $2 trillion budget deficit. Debt servicing costs are now $500 billion a year on our $32 trillion national debt. And we have an unfunded liability of $100 trillion in the form of Medicare and Social Security. The Medicare Trust Fund is exhausted in 2028 and the SSTF in 2034. By law, benefits will be reduced to revenue received, which translates to a reduction of 20% in benefits.
Zelensky estimates that it will take $800 billion to rebuild Ukraine. How much will the US contribute? We can't afford these endless wars.
PS. We have had 6 million illegal aliens cross into this country in the last two years with no sign that this invasion will slow down. What the Hell are we doing in Ukraine?
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