Posted on 06/26/2023 9:26:40 PM PDT by Cronos
As a two-mile-long convoy of military mutineers neared Moscow Saturday, a Russian presidential plane took off from the capital at 2:15 p.m. local time. It flew in the direction of President Putin’s native St. Petersburg until disappearing from radar at 3:06 p.m., according to Flight Radar.
“Putin is working at the Kremlin,” spokesman Dmitry Peskov.
A Russian air force attack on the mutineers was a fiasco. Soldiers from the Wagner mercenary group shot down six helicopters and one Ilyushin IL-18 airborne command center. The combined shootdowns killed 30 Russian airmen. Debris from one falling helicopter set ablaze the oil depot of Voronezh.
“There has not been such a tragedy in the history of our aviation for a long time,” a Russian TV presenter, Vladimir Solovyov, lamented Saturday night. “How many aircraft have we lost today? What is this?”
In Voronezh, the “Wagnerites” took control of local military facilities. the 277th Parachute Regiment switched sides.
“I ask everyone to get out of our way,” Prigozhin boomed
...Normally, Moscow would have been protected by the 4th Guards Tank Division, a unit set up by Stalin to guard the capital against western invaders. Before Putin’s attack on Ukraine last year, this unit had about 225 tanks and 300 armored personnel carriers. They suffered 80 percent losses in the Ukraine war, largely in Kharkiv and Luhansk. The British Defense Ministry has estimated it will take years to rebuild the division.
To defend the Moscow region without tanks, local authorities blocked highways with school buses and dump trucks, and started to dig up asphalt with excavators. Bridges over the Oka River were blockaded. Inside Moscow, more blockades were erected and Mayor Sergei Sobyanin imposed a “counter-terrorist regime.” Panic spread among some residents and all air tickets out of Moscow were sold out by Saturday night,
(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...
Yet we had tons of Putin supporters (did you do so as well?) who claimed that Bakhmut was not insignificant
Ukraine certainly treats it as if it is important. They have sacrificed the lives and limbs of tens of thousands of soldiers over Artyomovsk, and continue to do so. Why do you think that is?
Russian intel most certainly did not know in advance - as is clear from the FSB’s actions.
The Russian military leaders have intel agents embedded to watch them. Most certainly they did know. The master planner is a retired FSB offcer, assuming he is really retired.
Yevgeny Prigozhin
Russia as reports say US spy agencies picked up signs of planned uprising days
Andrew Roth, Pjotr Sauer and agencies
Sun 25 Jun 2023 01.36 EDT
The Guardian UK
As US intelligence officials pinned down information that Prigozhin was preparing military action, they grew concerned about chaos in a country with a powerful nuclear arsenal, the Times reported.US spy agencies believe that Putin himself was informed that Prigozhin, once a close ally, was plotting his rebellion at least a day before it occurred, the Post reported.
US spy agencies believe that Russian President Vladimir Putin was informed that Mr Prigozhin, once a close ally, was plotting his rebellion at least a day before it occurred, the Post reported.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/24/us-intelligence-prigozhin-putin/
U.S. spies learned in mid-June Prigozhin was plnning aremed action in Russia
By Ellen Nakashima and Shane Harris
Washington Post
Updated June 24, 2023 at 10:44 p.m. EDT
Published June 24, 203 at 9:09 p.m. EDT
[Excerpt]
U.S. intelligence agencies believe that Putin also was informed that Prighozin was plotting something. And though it is not clear precisel when he was told, it was "definitely more than 24 hours ago," the first U.S. official said.It remains unclear why Putin did not take action to thwart Prigozhin's takeover of the military command or his move on Moscow.
The original founder of Wagner was a GRU officer, Dmitri Utkin. Prigozhin said Utkin was the master planner of the March for Justice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PyQnjeJXtM&ab_channel=HistoryLegends
The Truth About Wagner's March on Moscow (Youtube)
one thing that left me wondering was the statement from Prigozhin the night of the insurrection our commander was behind the whole operation he's the best strategist in the world Dimitri Utkin.[...]
surprise surprise like we've seen in this video, I posted most of Wagner's commanders are also former officers of the GRU and this could explain why Prigozhin said our commander was behind the whole operation, he is the best strategist in the world, talking about the original Wagner Dmitry Utkin. And what do we know about him? Well Utkin served as the commander of the 700 Separate Special Detachment of the GRU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Utkin
Dmitry Valerievich Utkin; (born 11 June 1970) is a Ukrainian-born Russian army officer. He served as a special forces officer in the GRU, where he held the rank of lieutenant colonel. He is alleged to have founded the Wagner Group, with his own call-sign reportedly being Wagner. Utkin has received four Orders of Courage of Russia.
Finally - whatever be the state of the NY sun, do you dispute the statements in the article?
I did not even refer to the irrelevant statements you raise as a distraction.
What I stated, and which has gone without response, despite your extended word salads, is below. I bolded the major point so you can't miss it this time.
Had Prigozhin not stopped his parade, just what was he going to do when he got to Moscow? He had about 60 vehicles with a few thousand men, reportedly armed with shovels. As Prigozhin himself complained, he was always running out of ammunition. Of the 50,000 men he brought to the SMO, Ukraine had already killed 75,000, captured no less than 10,000 as prisoners, and there were untold deserters. An inept group, they spent months and months and months trying to subdue the small and insignificant village of Artyomovsk. Moscow is the largest city in all Europe, by area and population. The urban area has 18M people and covers more than 2,000 sq mi. Just the city police number over 50,000. Prigozhin's small force would not have survived a weekend in Chiraq. Moscow had arranged for the Chechen Army to set up a welcoming committee. Prigozhin's parade does not add up to an actual assault force to attack a major city.
It was amazing to watch those elections as they were held. So few people showed up at the polling places that door to door voting was conducted for the convenience of the voters. Election workers accompanied by 2 Chechen soldiers with rifles carried transparent boxes to receive the single page large print ballots that were clearly visible when the voter dropped it into the box after marking it. Wow, and we have people complaining here that our voting methods are unfair!!
I don’t know how many Wagners and supporters were on the mad dash for Moscow, but viewing the traffic on both sides of the highway the neumbers looked pretty impressive. However, there was no impression of violence in what I saw. Things were complicated by the fact that civilian traffic was being allowed to move in both directions while the military traffic was stopped for a while and troops were out walking around and chatting while waiting for instructions on next moves.
The move by Kadyrov and his Chechens was an unpleasant surprise. We may always wonder what would have happened if the Chechens had supported Wagner instead. Was the fact that his “buddy” Kazarov supported Putin, what kept him from fleeing to Turkey since it may be that Kazakhstan had refused him entry?
I’m glad you’re happy with the US electoral system. What’s going on in elections 8000 miles away in BF Donbas is absolutely no business of America’s. Yet you want interject the US into that centuries old blood feud while ignoring the fact that representative democracy in the US is dead. Incredible! You should be thrilled that the people in DC that you see as legitimate are turning the country into a police state to keep the malcontents like me silent. Giddy with anticipation as you see the Uniparty and Soros kangaroo courts in the process of disenfranchising a majority of Americans again in ‘24? You should be. Stealing another US presidential election keeps your woke globalist DC allies in power so they can continue subverting elections here and around the world. VegPres, your American honest elections personified.
You use a whole lot of nasty, abusive US electoral descriptions to suggest I am happy with the US electoral systems. I guess as a supporter of the Russian side in this “not a war” action you do NOT consider going door to door to collect votes at gunpoint to be worse than our election issues.
Whatever be the state of the paper - the facts put there are verifiable in other source, including Ruski
When he entered Rostov, and then Voronezh, the army groups not only did NOT resist him, but divisions joined him.
He didn’t face any opposition on his march - which shows that he was expecting people turning to join him and that was happening.
This makes it clear that it was enough to attack Moscow - he was expecting people to join his side just as what happened in Rostov-on-Don and Voronezh
1. The first link is about alleged US spy agencies picking up signs of the planned uprising. Nothing about that coming from embedded spies and nothing about this being known by the Russian KGB ver 2
2. says that the agencies BELIEVE that Putin was informed AT LEAST a day -- and if that was the case, Pooptin couldn't get anyone in Rostov or Voronezh to oppose Prigozhin?
No, the failure of the Russian state to prevent Prigo getting to 300 km of Moscow is the supreme failure of Russia's pathetic intel
In post 16 you said An inept group, they spent months and months and months trying to subdue the small and insignificant village
Then in post 101 you try and claim it was important
Make up your mind
And by the way, the land is still Ukraine, so go by the Ukrainian name.
Woodie in post 16 “An inept group, “
Woodie in post 100 “It was Russian military”
Wagner was NOT Russian military and is not Russian military
Nope, you raised the irrelevant statement As for the NY Sun, it should not be confused with a former newspaper that went by that name.
What I stated was:
As for the NY Sun, it should not be confused with a former newspaper that went by that name. The latest 2022 resurrection of The Sun has a daily print circulation of zero.
The New York Sun started in 1833, was very sucessful in its day but declined and ceased publication in 1950. It is remembered for an editorial which proclaimed "Yes Virginia, there is a Christmas."
While bearing the same name as the famous but defunct newspaper, it is not that newspaper. It is just pimping on the name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(New_York_City)
In 2002, a new broadsheet was launched, styled The New York Sun, and bearing the old newspaper's masthead and motto. It was intended as a "conservative alternative" and local-news focused alternative to the more liberal/progressive The New York Times and other New York newspapers. It was published by Ronald Weintraub and edited by Seth Lipsky, and ceased publication on September 30, 2008. In 2022, it was revived as an online newspaper, under the ownership of Dovid Efune, while Lipsky remained editor.
When he entered Rostov, and then Voronezh, the army groups not only did NOT resist him, but divisions joined him.
As I noted, a division contains 10,000 to 15,000 men. About 1,500 total went on the mechanized faux "march of justice" in vehicles. There was nothing near division strength, before or after imaginary additions were made.
He didn’t face any opposition on his march - which shows that he was expecting people turning to join him and that was happening.
Not being in the mind reading business, I don't know what he expected. A viable force did not happen.
He faced no opposition on his joyride in Russian military vehicles as Putin knew his plans in advance and just let Prigozhin make a fool of himself. One phone call stopped Prigozhin in his tracks and made him about face and wee wee wee himself all the way home. Heck, all the way to exile in Belarus. Returning all the Russian heavy military equipment back to the government. Dissolving Wagner.
This makes it clear that it was enough to attack Moscow
You are a comedian to rival Field Marshal Zelensky.
your word salad in post 102 does not in any way disagree with my statement that Russian intel most certainly did not know in advance -
Good comedy. The U.S. intel agencies leak their intel to the Washington Post who prints it. U.S. intel say it gave briefings well ahead of time and states very affirmatively that Russian intel also knew what Prigozhin was up to. It is documented, as opposed to your mind reading which appears to be your specialty.
Yevgeny Prigozhin
Russia as reports say US spy agencies picked up signs of planned uprising days ago
Andrew Roth, Pjotr Sauer and agencies
Sun 25 Jun 2023 01.36 EDT
The Guardian UK
As US intelligence officials pinned down information that Prigozhin was preparing military action, they grew concerned about chaos in a country with a powerful nuclear arsenal, the Times reported.US spy agencies believe that Putin himself was informed that Prigozhin, once a close ally, was plotting his rebellion at least a day before it occurred, the Post reported.
US spy agencies believe that Russian President Vladimir Putin was informed that Mr Prigozhin, once a close ally, was plotting his rebellion at least a day before it occurred, the Post reported.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/24/us-intelligence-prigozhin-putin/
U.S. spies learned in mid-June Prigozhin was planning aremed action in Russia
By Ellen Nakashima and Shane Harris
Washington Post
Updated June 24, 2023 at 10:44 p.m. EDT
Published June 24, 203 at 9:09 p.m. EDT
[Excerpt]
U.S. intelligence agencies believe that Putin also was informed that Prighozin was plotting something. And though it is not clear precisely when he was told, it was "definitely more than 24 hours ago," the first U.S. official said.It remains unclear why Putin did not take action to thwart Prigozhin's takeover of the military command or his move on Moscow.
Putin knew in advance. It is unclear to WAPO why Putin did not take action to thwart Prigozhin's move. Putin let Prigozhin proceed hundreds of miles down the road. Putin knew Prigozhin was not actually going anywhere.
The original Wagner, call sign Wagner, was a GRU military intelligence officer, Dmitri Utkin. Prigozhin said Utkin was the master planner of the March for Justice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PyQnjeJXtM&ab_channel=HistoryLegends
The Truth About Wagner's March on Moscow (Youtube)
one thing that left me wondering was the statement from Prigozhin the night of the insurrection our commander was behind the whole operation he's the best strategist in the world, Dimitri Utkin.[...]
surprise surprise like we've seen in this video, I posted most of Wagner's commanders are also former officers of the GRU and this could explain why Prigozhin said our commander was behind the whole operation, he is the best strategist in the world, talking about the original Wagner Dmitry Utkin. And what do we know about him? Well Utkin served as the commander of the 700 Separate Special Detachment of the GRU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Utkin
Dmitry Valerievich Utkin; (born 11 June 1970) is a Ukrainian-born Russian army officer. He served as a special forces officer in the GRU, where he held the rank of lieutenant colonel. He is alleged to have founded the Wagner Group, with his own call-sign reportedly being Wagner. Utkin has received four Orders of Courage of Russia.
Prigozhin has no military experience. He was a figurehead. Utkin, from the GRU military intelligence, call sign Wagner, was the founding member the organization was named after. Utkin ran the organization. Prigozhin stated Utkin was his master planner. Putin may have known about and approved Utkin's plan before Prigozhin knew about it. As U.S. intel agencies briefed the White House, Putin knew.
It looks like Prigozhin was the odd man out and didn't know it.
In post 16 you said An inept group, they spent months and months and months trying to subdue the small and insignificant villageThen in post 101 you try and claim it was important.
In #16, I sarcastically observed:
As Prigozhin himself complained, he was always running out of ammunition. Of the 50,000 men he brought to the SMO, Ukraine had already killed 75,000, captured no less than 10,000 as prisoners, and there were untold deserters. An inept group, they spent months and months and months trying to subdue the small and insignificant village of Artyomovsk. Moscow is the largest city in all Europe, by area and population. The urban area has 18M people and covers more than 2,000 sq mi. Just the city police number over 50,000.
At #101, I observed that Ukraine treats Artymovsk as if it is important, sacrificing the lives an limbs of tens of thousands of its soldiers fighting to keep it, and now fighting to reclaim it. I asked why do you think that is. You appear to have no answer.
Ukraine certainly treats it as if it is important. They have sacrificed the lives and limbs of tens of thousands of soldiers over Artyomovsk, and continue to do so. Why do you think that is?
Step right up. Why do you think Ukraine has sacrificed tens of thousands of men fight over Artyomovsk?
And by the way, the land is still Ukraine, so go by the Ukrainian name.
Artymovsk is currently Russian territory and is correctly calld by its Russian name. If it ever becomes Ukrainian territory again, I will use Ubonics to call it by its former name.
Woodie in post 16 “An inept group, “Woodie in post 100 “It was Russian military”
I'm not interested in your reading of post 16 and post 100 giving you a woodie. If you do the backstroke while going down river with your woodie, make sure to yell "raise the drawbridge."
Wagner was NOT Russian military and is not Russian military
Blackwater is an American group. Blackwater is a military group. Blackwater is an American military group. Blackwater is not an official part of the United States Armed Forces.
Wagner is a Russian group. Wagner is a military group. Wagner is a Russian military group. Wagner is not an official part of the Russian armed forces.
Wagner is funded by and supplied by the Russian government. The Russian government has just very recently reclaimed all the heavy equipment that it had permitted Wagner to possess, but not own. The Russian government is also dissolving Wagner into nothingness.
https://www.gocoastguard.com/about
The U.S. Coast Guard is one of America’s six armed forces and the only military branch in the Department of Homeland Security. Our missions are vital to national security and global humanitarian initiatives.
https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/coast-guard-mission-values.html
The Coast Guard does not fall under the Defense Department. Until recently, the Coast Guard was under the Department of Transportation. Recent legislation has moved the Coast Guard to the Department of Homeland Security.However, the Coast Guard is considered a military service, because, during times of war or conflict, the president of the United States can transfer any or all assets of the Coast Guard to the Department of the Navy. In fact, this has been done in almost every single conflict in which the United States have been involved. The Coast Guard is commanded by a four-star admiral, known as the Coast Guard commandant.
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