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Russian troops still build battlefield defenses like they did in World War II, and it's one of their rare successes in Ukraine, experts say
Business Insider via Yahoo ^ | June 22nd, 2023 | Michael Peck

Posted on 06/22/2023 6:34:20 PM PDT by Mariner

During World War II, German soldiers marveled at how skillfully Red Army troops used a shovel.

At battles such as Stalingrad, the Soviets proved to be masters of entrenchment and camouflage. German commanders said that a Red Army bridgehead had to be counterattacked and destroyed quickly because once the Soviets were dug in, they would be a nightmare to dig out.

Poor military performance in Ukraine has punctured Russian President Vladimir Putin's fantasy of reviving the Soviet empire. Yet Russian engineers seem to have lost none of their skill. They have created a dense system of fortifications that may stymie Ukraine's counteroffensive.

"Russian engineering has proven to be one of the stronger branches of the Russian military," a recent report by Britain's Royal United Services Institute, a think tank, said.

It's not that Russia has evolved new tactics. Current Russian fortification doctrine has seen "little methodological change" since the Cold War, the RUSI report said.

"Russian constructions follow traditional military plans for entrenchment, largely unchanged since the Second World War," British military intelligence said in a December statement about Russian activity in Luhansk.

The problem for Ukraine is that since late last year, Russian forces have been building up their defensive positions in eastern Ukraine and along the northern approaches to Crimea. These engineering works include concrete-lined trenches, barbed wire, dragon's teeth, anti-tank ditches, and plenty of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines, and they "pose a major tactical challenge to Ukrainian offensive operations," the RUSI report said.

(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 10percent4thebigguy; blackrockswar; demsunitedforbribes; demsunitedforukraine; michaelpeck; russia; ukraine; war
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A Roman Legionnaire was as good with a shovel as with his sword.

Russia has that same culture inculcated into every soldier.

That just be why western media was saying they were nothing but conscripts, armed only with shovels.

They didn't know a shovel is a mighty weapon.

1 posted on 06/22/2023 6:34:20 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: Mariner

I told you it was a trap as soon as the counteroffensive began.

DIDN’T I.

The internet is forever


2 posted on 06/22/2023 6:35:35 PM PDT by NWFree (Sigma male 🤪)
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To: NWFree

trap?

what are you talking about?


3 posted on 06/22/2023 6:37:54 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Battle of Kursk

Ww2

Read the story you posted


4 posted on 06/22/2023 6:40:00 PM PDT by NWFree (Sigma male 🤪)
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To: Mariner

“ concrete-lined trenches, barbed wire, dragon’s teeth, anti-tank ditches, and plenty of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines”

Battle of Kursk

TRAP

We’re you born yesterday?!


5 posted on 06/22/2023 6:41:32 PM PDT by NWFree (Sigma male 🤪)
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To: NWFree

I think if you see too many troops drawn into the east, Russia will invade Kiev. It’s just too tempting.


6 posted on 06/22/2023 6:41:57 PM PDT by struggle
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To: Mariner

My understanding is that Russia might be doing better than we are being led to know. Ukraine has been mostly unable to bypass the first level of defense in most of its battles, while Russia has been maximizing its use of e-surveillance to take out the Ukraine army.


7 posted on 06/22/2023 6:42:28 PM PDT by Jonty30 (If liberals were truth tellers, they'd call themselves literals. )
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To: Mariner

Maybe one day a few of the Ukrainian volunteers from the West that have survived will be allowed to tell the tale of how lousy the military they went up against was.


8 posted on 06/22/2023 6:44:32 PM PDT by Dogbert41 (“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God” -Matthew 5:9)
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To: NWFree

The Battle of Kursk is not mentioned.


9 posted on 06/22/2023 6:45:23 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Jonty30

“My understanding is that Russia might be doing better than we are being led to know. Ukraine has been mostly unable to bypass the first level of defense in most of its battles, while Russia has been maximizing its use of e-surveillance to take out the Ukraine army.”

Clearly the case, although Ukraine hasn’t even reach the first primary defense line and is getting slaughtered in what the Russians call the “Crumple Zone”.


10 posted on 06/22/2023 6:46:13 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Mariner

I got as far as the crap sandwich “Putin’s fantasy of reviving the Soviet empire”. I simply don’t suffer lying Western disinfo.


11 posted on 06/22/2023 6:54:45 PM PDT by hardspunned (Former DC GOP globalist stooge)
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To: Mariner

A single country battling both America and NATO to a standstill is not a “rare success.” Apparently the West does not have enough angry, rabid trannies with guns.


12 posted on 06/22/2023 7:01:17 PM PDT by wildcard_redneck (Biden will mess up the Ukraine worse than Afghanistan.)
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To: Mariner

They are the masters of this.


13 posted on 06/22/2023 7:02:33 PM PDT by toddausauras (Trump Lake 2024....Go down swinging!)
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To: Mariner

I just finished a book by a Russian soldier on the eastern front during the Great Patriotic War. During one offensive his unit took refuge in abandoned German bunkers and trenches. He marveled at how good they were. I wonder if that’s where the Russians learned about defensive fortifications.


14 posted on 06/22/2023 7:08:48 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (There are three kinds of rats: Rats, Damned Rats, and DemocRats.)
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To: AlaskaErik

bttt


15 posted on 06/22/2023 7:14:18 PM PDT by linMcHlp
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To: Mariner
image host
16 posted on 06/22/2023 7:38:49 PM PDT by CapandBall
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To: Mariner

Rare successes? They are grinding the Ukrainian military into hamburger and de-militarizing NATO.


17 posted on 06/22/2023 7:44:03 PM PDT by Kazan
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To: struggle

I think if you see too many troops drawn into the east, Russia will invade Kiev. It’s just too tempting.
———
Belarus just authorized full mobilization, and Ukraine issued another “ full mobilization “ of what is left of their 18-60 year old males….


18 posted on 06/22/2023 8:03:21 PM PDT by delta7
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To: AlaskaErik
They certainly took it into account in their later doctrine, but the major problem with Russian defenses in the early war was that they were always being hastily thrown together after having been forced to retreat to that point. Eventually the Russians were able to set up their proper field fortifications far enough behind the then front lines and then retreat into them. When the Germans encountered them, they *really* didn't like them.

There is a reason why this memorial in the Moscow suburb of Khimki exists:

It is a simple, yet stark memorial - three giant, larger than life tank traps in a plaza with a plinth that mark the furthest point of penetration the Germans achieved. This is the spot at which the invasion was stopped cold and began to be rolled back. The choice of anti-tank defenses as the icon for the memorial is deliberate.

It is also worth noting that the Russians emphasized function over form and any field fortification that would do the job, no matter how ugly or sloppy they were, were fine. When they encountered abandoned German field fortifications, they marveled at how precisely they were made and constructed - but several pointed out in their memoirs that the time and resources used to make 'perfect' fortifications out of 'good enough' ones probably would have been better spent elsewhere.

19 posted on 06/22/2023 8:07:00 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Mariner

I believe this Ukrainian counteroffensive is premature.

Ukraine seemed to be holding their own against Russian attacks, sapping Russian men, equipment, & morale. Defenders have well known advantages in any battle, & attackers require numerical advantage in men & firepower, things the Ukrainians lack. Ukraine could exhaust itself against Russian defenses.


20 posted on 06/22/2023 8:11:45 PM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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