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To: Right_Wing_Madman

Those who thought risking this war through NATO East expansion into Ukraine was a good idea, were no friends of Ukraine.

This was/is a needless war and when it is over, Ukraine will be smaller, poorer, weaker, less stable. The only growing industry in Ukraine are the graveyards and undertakers.

But it’s a sad story for Russia too. They might accomplish their political and military objectives and thereby technically win, but at a huge cost in lives and to their military, to lesser extent their economy.

It was a senseless war based on a gamble where the Biden administration thought they could score an easy political victory on the tail of a horrible Afghanistan fiasco. They were “hoping” Russia would acquiesce, since we had been arming, training, feeding intel to the Ukrainians making a Russian invasion costly (which it is). Besides a great PR victory, NATO East expansion would please the big US corporations and financial institutions since they want this. Finally, politically it’s a great move because it keeps us relevant and influential in European politics. It is largely through NATO where we have influence in Europe and if Ukraine becomes an EU member but not a NATO member, that’s bad for us.

This was our call: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

You are right. Not enough folks have died yet, but eventually the outcome will be the same, Ukraine loses 20% of its landmass and population, an industrial area and port cities. Ukraine will not be in NATO and likely not even the EU.

The relationship between Ukraine and Biden is like a young man that goes to a car dealer who smiles at him, flatters him, and shows him all these really cool cars and gets him to buy one that is actually beyond his means. The young man thinks the car dealer is his “friend,” when in reality he’ll eventually figure out the dealer was only acting in self interest, not at all his friend, and he’s paying the price for it.

THERE WAS NO REASON (other than what benefits Biden) FOR THE CHANGE IN POLICY!

We could have continued to pursue a course where we equip Ukraine, even with weapon systems.

We could have continued to train Ukraine’s forces, to feed them intel, to slowly move closer and closer to eventual NATO membership without some abrupt declaration.

This would have made true Russian aggression costly, but it would have not put Russia in a position where they have a legit security concern/argument (NATO/US forces and equipment on their border and total loss of influence on Ukraine).

The interesting part to me is how Biden and his administration are in no way getting pressured by the media or even the Republicans really. Not even their political opposition is using this war against them, although the Democrats used Iraq starting in 2004 for their benefit in the most ruthless imaginable way, harping on our own body counts, collateral damage, misdeeds by idiots (Abu Gahrib), the cost in money and questioning the legitimacy (Bush lied people died was the slogan)...


9 posted on 06/16/2023 12:37:55 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6

Again you see this through the lens of Russian agression rather than the globohomo use of NATO to use Ukraine as their tool to expand their empire.


10 posted on 06/16/2023 1:00:33 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: Red6

Nato expansion was done long before Putin stated this war. All the Eastern European nations bordering or near-bordering Russia were Nato almost 20 years ago.
Your analysis is incoherent.

The Biden administration, moreover, was bending backwards to accommodate Russian interests, and those of its Euro allies, the German “deep state”. The approval of Nordstream 2 was a critical move.

Rather, it seems that the Russians took the opportunity to attempt their coup de main precisely because the US administration exuded weakness.

The US administration was doing nothing wrt Ukraine that wasn’t already going on under Trump. US policy in 2021-22, other than the weakness above, was entirely status quo. The “gamble” was entirely Russian.


31 posted on 06/16/2023 3:59:38 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: Red6

The Western mistakes in Ukraine began in the 2000s, starting especially in 2008 when Bush declared Ukraine would be in NATO.

The US-arranged coup in 2013 really sealed Ukraine’s fate. Knowing Ukraine was being moved into the NATO camp with that coup, Russia seized Crimea, and there was no coming back after that.

Its pure arrogance from the effeminate, globalist, social-engineers in DC, London and Brussels that assumed they could do whatever they wanted in Ukraine.


39 posted on 06/16/2023 5:50:28 AM PDT by PGR88
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