A VIEW FROM THE EDGE OF THE ABYSS

Sonar 21 ^ | 3 May 23 | Thomas Lipscomb

[delta7]

America’s neocon citizens with Ukrainian roots are currently trying to push Ukraine into a Spring offensive everyone knows will be a massacre just to cover their own asses, so they will have an excuse to cut and run in time for the coming Presidential election. Given the disgraceful alliance between a Federal regime risking nuclear war with no proper authority from the American people and what used to be a press, which is now little more than the government’s collaborator in suppressing the facts of what is happening, the American people have NO IDEA what is going on in their name.

The current Congress is still as indifferent to the Executive Branch’s infringement of its “War Powers” authority as it is to its key responsibility in enacting budgetary legislation. Both political parties are all too willing to leave their Legislative responsibilities to the Administrative state and concentrate on what is really important: fundraising. The American people are being lulled with the lie they are “supporting a plucky little Ukrainian democracy against a totalitarian invasion by evil Russians bent on conquest” while their elected Congress stands in the aisles and cheers a “Churchillian” Zelensky, dictator of the most corrupt state in Europe who is stealing their money.

But the Russians have been running methodical textbook attacks destroying the assembly area for the 13 brigades the leaked Pentagon Papers said would be used in the offensive. So far 9 of the vital HQ detachments of the brigades have been attacked. That targeted a lot of the key veteran personnel desperately needed to lead the inexperienced new troops, desperately raised in a Ukranian last stand.

The Ukrainian assembly areas themselves are near railhead bottlenecks up and down the line of engagement where armored vehicles and supporting artillery are assembled, munitions and other supplies are stored , and troops are concentrated. Hundreds of tons of artillery ammunition and missiles have been destroyed and thousands of troops have been killed or injured.

The Ukrainians have had difficulty dispersing their assembly areas because the mudpits of the rasputina surrounds them on every side until the ground dries out. They are literally stuck in the mud. They have concentrated too early. And the Russians have taken full advantage of it.

The Russians have sent a mix of hundreds of missiles and drones from Murmansk, the Caspian Sea, and Crimea as well as Cold War bombers with glide bombs from Russia. And there are more where those came from while the Ukrainians, already suffering from shortages of key equipment and munitions have just taken more losses further handicapping their impending offensive with even more shortages. Russian intelligence is excellent. Its planning and response, inexorable.

As Mark Wauck summarizes “Ukraine’s professional military knows that the offensive would be suicidal. Ukrainian losses of manpower continue to be extremely heavy—Russia is claiming that Ukraine lost 15,000 men in April. Losses of equipment are reaching catastrophic levels as well, as Russian attacks have heavily targeted assembly areas for munitions and equipment.”

If Zelensky’s cowardice allows America’s foreign policy neocon scum to push Ukraine into a doomed offensive, it will be the most wasted effusion of blood yet in this catastrophic “proxy war.” And it will be the most disgraceful ending possible to the Neocon’s 30 years “forever war” that dropped the United States from a half century illusion of dominant hegemony to an also ran with an obsolete defense establishment and a wrecked economy, all in less than 2 years.. READER INTERACTIONS

[delta7]

Vlad’s meat grinder, full steam ahead.

[sauropod]

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[lizma2]

At this point, I don’t have a clue what is going on in Russia and Ukraine.

My Grandfather was born in Kiev but considered himself Russian. It seems that a few areas of Ukraine still feel the same.

I think both sides are feeding us B.S. and a lot of our money is getting laundered.

Wonder what “The Big Guy’s” cut is?

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks!

You are not by yourself in this complex $hit storm/

[2banana]

This is certainly better than remaining neutral and abiding by the Minsk Accords.

[Dogbert41]

Quite frankly, after they hit the Kremlin today, I’m quite surprised there’s still a place called Kiev.

It’s funny how Zelinsky was off to a new NATO country today when it happened.

[shadowlands1960]

If Thomas Lipscomb knows the disposition of these Ukrainian brigades and their equipment, I’m pretty sure Russia does too.

[Jan_Sobieski]

The American people are being lulled with the lie they are “supporting a plucky little Ukrainian democracy against a totalitarian invasion by evil Russians bent on conquest” while their elected Congress stands in the aisles and cheers a “Churchillian” Zelensky

Only because the American people seem to WANT to believe the lie, rather than seek the truth.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

“ Only because the American people seem to WANT to believe the lie, rather than seek the truth.”

That is one of the primary characteristics of 21st century Americans. They desperately want to believe the blatant lies they are fed. Even sheep have more critical thinking skills.

[SaveFerris]

(That is one of the primary characteristics of 21st century Americans. They desperately want to believe the blatant lies they are fed)

🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑

Baaa! Baaaaa! Must take every booster!

💉💉💉💉💉

[alexander_busek]

My Grandfather was born in Kiev but considered himself Russian. It seems that a few areas of Ukraine still feel the same.

There are likewise scores of millions of people (incl. illegals) of Mexican heritage in the Southwest U.S. Many of them "consider" themselves Mexican. Should they likewise be granted the option of voting on whether those territories should be handed over to Mexico?!

Or, conversely: Would Mexico be morally justified in simply invading those territories, establishing puppet regimes, and/or annexing them outright through force of arms?!

What is happening today in Ukraine is an outrage. The crimes perpetrated by the Putin regime beggar description. That you could attempt to relativize the situation by recounting some sweet, old reminiscences about your sainted grandfather is disturbing.

Regards,

[lizma2]

All I said is basically borders in Europe have been changing for hundreds of years and ethnics groups end up in different countries.

Don’t recall the U.S. seizing part of Mexico.

You would demean me for loving my Grandfather???

Sad.

[Jim Noble]

“ Don’t recall the U.S. seizing part of Mexico.”

California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, and Texas.

Not that much.

[alexander_busek]

All I said is basically borders in Europe have been changing for hundreds of years and ethnics groups end up in different countries.

I have lived in Central Europe for more than four decades, and am an official tour guide for the local medieval castle, where I regularly make mention of that fact that, in the early 16th century, this entire region (just south of Stuttgart) had been Austrian territory.

I am thus well aware of these facts.

However, the fact that minor despots, kinglets, robber barons, etc. were constantly bickering about and shifting borders back in the Middle Ages has absolutely no bearing in any discussion about modern Europe, where it has now been agreed by all Free Nations that only democratic means - and not the force of arms - may be used to shift boundaries.

Heck, the boundaries of my country of residence have been shifted massively during my own lifetime! However, that was a peaceful event, and is utterly irrelevant to the case at hand.

Don’t recall the U.S. seizing part of Mexico.

Please crack a history book before you lecture me on this subject!

But even if your point were true, and the U.S. had never forcibly annexed enormous amounts of Mexican territory - the fact remains that there are scores of millions of Mexicans (and Guatemalans, etc.) here who - by your reasoning - have a legitimate claim to hold plebescites and "opt out" of the U.S. - and take the land with them!

You would demean me for loving my Grandfather???

Where did I ever demean you for that? On the contrary: I referred to your reminiscences as "sweet," and to your grandfather as "sainted." I was merely pointing out that your referring to his story in an apparent attempt to relativize the current brutal and bloody invasion of Ukraine by Putin's Russia was distracting and irrelevant. In short: You were misusing that memory. And I found that "disturbing" (hardly a word used to "demean" someone).

Regards,

[Soul of the South]

“That is one of the primary characteristics of 21st century Americans. They desperately want to believe the blatant lies they are fed. Even sheep have more critical thinking skills.”

Reinstate the military draft in the United States and many young people will quickly develop critical thinking skills.

[GOPJ]

I think both sides are feeding us B.S. and a lot of our money is getting laundered.

Sounds about right...

[daniel1212]

Or, conversely: Would Mexico be morally justified in simply invading those territories, establishing puppet regimes, and/or annexing them outright through force of arms?!

Consider the actual or potential disputes based upon irredentism , which is usually understood as a desire that one state annexes a territory of a neighboring state. This desire is motivated by ethnic reasons because the population of the territory is ethnically similar to the population of the parent state, or by historical reasons because the territory formed part of the parent state before. -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_irredentist_claims_or_disputes

Map of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy: Kingdom of Hungary (green) and the autonomous Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia (red).These areas comprised the borders of the Kingdom of Hungary within the Habsburg monarchy.

Nazi Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland,

In green the Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen (Transleithania), the Hungarian territories in the Austro-Hungarian monarchy consisting of the Kingdom of Hungary and the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia. Hungary also jointly governed the Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina (blue) with Austria (Cisleithania).

Partition of the Kingdom of Hungary in 1541

Hungarian irredentism in the 1930s led Hungary to form an alliance with Nazi Germany.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Territorial_gains_of_Hungary_1938-41_en.svg/180px-Territorial_gains_of_Hungary_1938-41_en.svg.png

Map of Switzerland showing in purple the Italian-speaking areas, where Italian irredentism was strongest

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_irredentism

A map of the 14th-century Serbian Empire

Expansion of the Grand Duchy of Moscow, Tsardom of Russia and Russian Empire between the 14th and 20th centuries.

Russian expansion in Eurasia between 1533 and 1894

Map of territorial changes in Europe after World War I (as of 1923)

Regions of Ukraine annexed by Russia since 2014 (Crimea) and 2022 (Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia), with a red line marking the area of actual control by Russia on 30 September 2022.

Mexico 1824 (equirectangular projection).png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mexico_1824_(equirectangular_projection).png

Territorial Gains by the U.S. In less than 50 years, the western border of United States grew from the Mississippi River to the Pacific Ocean, starting with the Louisiana Purchase and ending with the territories gained from Mexico in the Mexican-American War. Spain gave up its claim to Florida and the northeastern Gulf Coast, and agreements with Great Britain established the boundary with Canada by 1846.

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/territorial-gains/

United States land claims and cessions 1782-1802

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_land_claims_and_cessions_1782-1802.png

[alexander_busek]

I will repeat here what I have stated in other threads on this topic, re. how U.S. policies should treat forcible boundary changes:

We are now living in the Nuclear Age. Since WWI, all civilized nations have officially renounced the use of violence to resolve border disputes.

I find it quite disgusting to see someone attempt to relativize or minimize or excuse Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine today, in the Nuclear Era, by establishing any sort of moral equivalence with the colonialism rampant among the "Great Powers" of the 18th and 19th centuries.

The fact that America - and others - practiced gunboat diplomacy and imposed their will upon others for mere material gain is irrelevant to today's discussion.

The fact that hoary old monarchies were constantly bickering and grabbing land is irrelevant.

We (the West) must not allow Russia to succeed in this blatant land-grab and gross disturbance of the (relatively) peaceful post-WWII order in Europe. To allow Russia to succeed now, would establish a horrible precedent.

Regards,

[alexander_busek]

Sorry, I see now that I actually addressed your objection in this very thread:

However, the fact that minor despots, kinglets, robber barons, etc. were constantly bickering about and shifting borders back in the Middle Ages has absolutely no bearing in any discussion about modern Europe, where it has now been agreed by all Free Nations that only democratic means - and not the force of arms - may be used to shift boundaries.

So post all the maps of 18th-century Europe and its shifting boundaries that you want! That is all passé with the Atom Bomb. The sovereign nations of the world have agreed that force of arms may not be used to settle border disputes.

Regards,