[tlozo]

But NATO has basically attacked Russia... We’re not the Good Guys

Right, show exactly how NATO "basically attacked Russia". Nonsense

[Alas Babylon!]

Here's a picture of one of the thousands of Soviet SAMs in North Vietnam. Several of these killed my fellow USAF Airmen. Many of the early version were not only sold by the Soviets, but manned and run by Russian-Soviet technicians.

If that wasn't an act of war against the USA in the 1960s, then whatever the Russian are saying it is now is hyperbole.

[ClearCase_guy]

Right, show exactly how NATO "basically attacked Russia".

The first step was clearly Russia attacking Ukraine. No question. So, "Russia started it". I do understand that.

But Ukraine is Ukraine and it is not NATO. So that initial conflict was isolated. It's Russia and Ukraine.

But currently every country in NATO is supplying money and arms and ammunition to Ukraine in order to fight the Russian military. German Leopard tanks have arrived. You have German armor tangling with Russian troops.

I understand that you don't want to see this as "NATO attacking Russia" but from where I'm sitting, this is NATO attacking Russia.