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Cost of Bakhmut ‘meat grinder’ battle on Russian army revealed
The Telegraph ^ | 7 March 2023 | Roland Oliphant

Posted on 03/10/2023 9:11:33 PM PST by MinorityRepublican

Russia has lost an estimated five men for every Ukrainian soldier its forces have killed in the battle for Bakhmut, according to a Nato official.

Speaking to CNN on condition of anonymity, the official said that Nato intelligence showed that Russia’s losses in the assault on the eastern salt-mining town far outweighed Ukraine’s.

The official also said, however, that Ukraine’s losses defending the city were significant.

Russia’s use of costly wave attacks have prompted comparisons to the First World War and the commander of the mercenary forces leading the assault has described the battle as a “meat grinder” for Russian troops.

Russia has been assaulting Bakhut since August, in what has become the longest and costliest battle of the war.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Russia
KEYWORDS: 100000deadrussians; bakhmut; bobthenatoofficial; boggeddown; donbasquagmire; failedinvasion; groundukiemeat; militarygenius; norsebadenov; relentlessneocontard; rolandoliphant; thechummybot; theusualdumbspects; whatakrok
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To: Bulwyf

The propaganda from both sides is never ending. I don’t care what the Russian media says but the western media is just as dishonest. The coverage of the war is as crooked as Joke Biden.


21 posted on 03/10/2023 10:47:50 PM PST by Rdct29 (Democrats are the new Nazi's. They think they deserve total control over the people)
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To: hardspunned

The Russians are charging naked through the snow with only toothpicks to figh with I tell you! /sarc

Good propaganda has to be somewhat believable and this excrement is not.


22 posted on 03/10/2023 10:47:51 PM PST by wildcard_redneck (Biden will mess up the Ukraine worse than Afghanistan.)
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To: canuck_conservative

Wait until Canada gets into the war! Then Russia will surely surrender.


23 posted on 03/10/2023 10:48:56 PM PST by wildcard_redneck (Biden will mess up the Ukraine worse than Afghanistan.)
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To: MinorityRepublican

First, the scenario is just a little bit more likely than Russia capturing Hawaii.
Second, if Putin is weak, Russians are going to get a strong leader.
It is that simple.


24 posted on 03/10/2023 10:51:50 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: Rdct29
The propaganda from both sides is never ending. I don’t care what the Russian media says but the western media is just as dishonest.

Western propaganda is exaggerating a bit, that's for sure. But here's a prediction. NATO weapons will give Ukraine the upper hand. The Russians will not be able to defend against the upcoming spring/summer offensive. The corruption of the Russian military machine have made them ineffective in combat.

25 posted on 03/10/2023 10:52:24 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: MinorityRepublican

the ruble is trading at a multi year high, oil/gas prices are elevated=Putin is prospering. The Dem doubling of the price of fuel before any invasion enabled this and the 2014 invasion. He funded the anti fracking movements for a reason.

The solution ofc is to flood the world with oil and watch him run home. Yet, I haven’t heard it mentioned not even one time.


26 posted on 03/10/2023 10:53:44 PM PST by Freest Republican (This space for rent)
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To: canuck_conservative

Putin won’t use nukes because the doctrines of their use are obsolete on modern battlefield.
If he’d indeed use them, it is going to scare NATO away for good.


27 posted on 03/10/2023 10:54:32 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: MinorityRepublican
Russia is fighting a 'zombie war' in Ukraine. Is it working? | Russia Ukraine update
Daily Mail
11 hours ago
https://youtu.be/Iehodv5S-ps

28 posted on 03/10/2023 10:57:52 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: canuck_conservative

I have an odd request of fellow Freepers. I read the news that is pro Russian and Pro Ukrainian, from many different sites. I believe none. Is there a site or several sites that just tell the truth about what is real on the battlefield without political bias?


29 posted on 03/10/2023 10:57:55 PM PST by cpdiii (cane cutter-deckhand-roughneck-oil field trash- drilling fluid tech-geologist-pilot- pharmacist)
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To: MinorityRepublican
The corruption of the Russian military machine have made them ineffective in combat

just before Russia invaded last February, Ukraine sent a secret Russian-speaking special ops team inside Russia to look around ... they saw a lot of tanks and vehicles in poor, unmaintained condition, and most of the soldiers they met were eager to sell them military hardware to buy vodka

that probably formed part of Ukraine's decision not to cut & run when the invasion started ...


30 posted on 03/10/2023 11:02:55 PM PST by canuck_conservative (if Russia could just stop attacking its neighbors, we wouldn't need NATO anymore)
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To: MinorityRepublican
The Soviets after Stalin were pretty rational. Putin is not. That's the main difference. At the end of Soviet Union, Ronald Reagan was able to reason with Gorbachev.

Do you not even read what you type?   Our administration has not made any attempt to negotiate.   We have just charged in hells bells, balls to the wall.   Well, President Putin has no reason to believe anything Biden says because our politicians have lied to the Russians since 1991.

Within the past week an untold number of our US military have arrived at a new forward operating base FOB in a Rzeszów (RZE) the largest city in southeastern Poland about fifty miles from the Ukrainian border.   You may get your World War Three death wish sooner than you thought.

31 posted on 03/10/2023 11:09:52 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: cpdiii

there might be, but I haven’t seen one

part of the problem is because both sides have info blackouts

so you have to condense a lot of news from various sites, and then add in some common-sense deductive thinking


32 posted on 03/10/2023 11:11:49 PM PST by canuck_conservative (if Russia could just stop attacking its neighbors, we wouldn't need NATO anymore)
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To: cpdiii

One can follow the currency exchange. The ruble has been freely traded for a number of years.

I had not looked in a little while before my post above as it has come back down to almost where it was pre invasion.

He prospered for a little while and is now back to as if no invasion took place. We’ll know if it starts tanking that he is not faring well.

Any search of the conversion rate chart makes it easy to follow along.


33 posted on 03/10/2023 11:12:53 PM PST by Freest Republican (This space for rent)
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To: MinorityRepublican

According to fanatical Putin Stooges, Bakhmut has been a cakewalk in the park.


34 posted on 03/10/2023 11:13:08 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: BrexitBen

MacGregor has an awful track record of information and prediction.

He’s got a track record as a field officer of armored forces. Thats something, but he has no other professional or other informational background. If he were advising Ukrainian tank battalions equipped with US equipment and organized on the US model he may have something to offer.

On the other side you have an anonymous source out of NATO.

I’d say ignore both. Wait for after the war.


35 posted on 03/10/2023 11:23:48 PM PST by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: MinorityRepublican
Over 1,000 Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine on 10 March

36 posted on 03/10/2023 11:23:56 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: canuck_conservative
Putin won’t use nukes, because that WILL bring in NATO ... which is the last thing Putin wants, he can barely handle just ukraine

That is the most foolish thing I have ever heard.   You are ignorantly thinking of small tactical nukes in theater.

Have you not heard of MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction?   If the super powers use nuclear weapons there is no choice but to launch on warning.   When there is only sixteen minutes or less from a launch until destruction, there is no choice but to launch the most crushing barrage of weapons before the other guy has a chance to destroy your arsenal.

Let me guess, you have never been in the military.   What am I asking for?   You are from the Great White North.   Nuclear weapons trump any imagined political support.

37 posted on 03/10/2023 11:24:18 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: cpdiii

I am wondering how much of the drop since the last time that I checked it out has to do with the warm winter in Europe. Obv that caused a drop in the demand for rubles.

Ultimately though, not losing a war without the currency being decimated in the process.


38 posted on 03/10/2023 11:25:39 PM PST by Freest Republican (This space for rent)
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To: cpdiii

There is no absolutely fair source for information, as all of the most important info is filtered through the Ukrainian or Russian MOD.

Which is natural, as it is their war and their forces. Modern war is a numbers game, and only those two know the real numbers. And they aren’t telling. Anyone else has to work around the fringes.

Two reliable (by my standards) sources -
1. Oryx, which categorizes and counts equipment losses based on photos/videos. A genuinely new sort of approach to modern war journalism, based on the best proof possible. I would take them as the gold standard on open source material and processing. Their output is however very much “inside baseball” and itself needs context to interpret. What does it mean that x number of a certain type of Russian tank has been shown to be destroyed or captured? Thats for you to figure out.
2. Perun. His videos are long “staff officer” type powerpoint presentations. These are based on “open source” also, but they are mainly based on economic/trade press information, from his background in Defense Industry and (Australian) Armed Forces procurement. He is definitely pro-Ukrainian, but extremely detailed and meticulous.


39 posted on 03/10/2023 11:34:17 PM PST by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: MinorityRepublican
Russian Representatives of the Ministry of Defense to Be Imprisoned For the Disruption of State Orders
Defense Express
March 11, 2023
The russian federation does not stop trying to increase the production of weapons and military equipment, which does not keep up with the Kremlin’s needs

Not only the manufacturers themselves, but even representatives of russia’s Ministry of Defense are now at risk of receiving 10 years sentence for failure to fulfill a state defense order.

In particular, Vladimir Gutenev, the head of the russian parliament's committee on industry and trade, is pushing to spread a criminal penalty for non-fulfillment of a defense order by an enterprise to representatives of russia’s Ministry of Defense. He called for a symmetrical punishment for the defense industry representatives, who should also be responsible for the disruption of the order execution.

In this way, the idea of the russian deputy fully adheres to the principle of the Chekists of the times of wartime communism, that there are simply no innocents and everyone should be behind the bars.

Moreover, it will be interesting to follow its implementation, as previously in July 2022 in russia there have been regulations according to which the companies cannot refuse to fulfill a defense order and must accept the terms of the contract proposed by russia’s Ministry of Defense or another structure.

After that, a penalty of up to 10 years was introduced for non-fulfillment of the order. Recently, there have been the new order released stating that a temporary administration is appointed for an enterprise that violated the terms of the contract. The rights of shareholders are suspended, and the management is removed. In fact, the company is expropriated as in the 90s.

At the same time, Gutenev said that "currently there is a strong personnel shortage", since the enterprises have switched to multi-shift work modes almost around the clock. In order to solve this problem, russia plans to reduce training time for young professionals the and raise the salary at a defense enterprise, as well as provide accommodation.

40 posted on 03/10/2023 11:43:40 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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