Posted on 03/02/2023 6:42:55 AM PST by UMCRevMom@aol.com
there is no educating the ones that receive their info from the MSM/deep state and refuse to study History. You can even look back a few years at our own MSM reporting on the Donbas and Ukraine shelling. Its not ok for Donbas to break away from Ukraine after a Nuland induced civil war, But it is ok for Ukraine to break away from Russia a couple decades ago.
Ukraine has a separate nationality that is distinct from that of Russia and which goes back centuries before it was conquered by Moscow. Contrary to Russian propaganda, Donbas has a majority Ukrainian, not Russian, population. Nor did its population choose to break away from Ukraine. Rather, Russia used surrogate militias among the Russian minority to militarily occupy Donbas. Even the "referenda" in 2014 were not for independence but merely for autonomy within a united Ukraine. Russia, however, would not allow this and used its surrogate militias to block unification. You need to look beyond Russian propaganda.
The Russian speakers in the Donbass are long-time residents, many born there.
The power of propaganda is amazing.
Nonetheless, the ethnic Russians are MINORITY there, less than 40% of the population. Ethnic Ukrainians are 60% of the population in Luhansk and Donetsk, and an even larger percentage of the population in the other oblasts that Putin claimed to have annexed.
—” Negotiate a settlement, take your losses, and stop the killing.”
The same position as CODE PINK?
Do you hold hands with some of their cuties at the marches?
They aren’t a minority there, in fact they voted overwhelmingly to formally become part of Russia a few months ago. Please educate yourself.
You need an history lesson. Ukraine broke away from Russia in 1918. When the Bolsheviks conquered it in 1922 it was not merged back into Russia but instead became one of the constituent parts of the Soviet Union, along with Russia.
When the USSR collapsed, Ukraine regained its independence the same as all the other former Soviet republics. It did not secede from Russia.
If you insist that the USSR was just another name for Russia, then that would justify Russian irredentist claims on all the other former Soviet republics.
As I’ve said before the ukes will never win. And if a fluke occurs, just look at those spoils of war...
"Russian speakers" does not equal "ethnic Russians." The split between Ukrainians and Russians in Donbas is roughly 60/40. Russians are in the minority.
With all due regard, you are the one who needs the education. Ethnic Russians are now and have always been a minority in Luhansk and Donetsk.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine
As for your statement on the referendum, as there was no independent observers, there is no telling how many ethnic Ukrainians boycotted the vote or how legitimate the count was for those who did vote.
Good Lord, you actually question the Dunbass referendum because independent UN observers weren’t present, while at the same time shrugging at the Victoria Nuland coup in 2014?
Nice thought, but he enjoys the support of of his people and has accomplished most of Russia's goals in Ukraine. Still owns the territories and has totally smashed Ukraine's military along with billions of NATO equipment.
All those hundreds of millions and all that western gear - into a big black hole - yet the Uke welfare queens are still failing.
Yes, I question the the so-called referendums, as would anyone with a brain and who isn’t a shill for the Kremlin would. There is no way you, nor anyone else, can verify that it represented the true views of the population. Btw, those “referendums”, just as the 2014 Donbas “elections”, were in violation of Minsk II. Russia has refused to allow the OSCE-supervised elections that were mandated by the Minsk-II agreement.
You also ignore that Yanukovych was remove by the democratically-elected Ukrainian parliament and that there have be several democratic elections since then. It is not legitimate to claim that the current Ukrainian government was installed in a coup.
You nutjob!
NATO kept moving closer and closer to the Russian borders. Even though NATO said they would not further encroach on Russia.
Oh well, Putin warned about what he was going to do.
And what’s really strange is that there is a mass exodus out of Russia but not Ukraine.
I know this to be true because Antony Blinken was on the news a few day ago and confirmed.
The Minsk agreement is recognized by anyone who has been following this subject as a ruse to buy time for the NATO armament of Ukraine. That you reference it as an outline for peace shows a lack of understanding.
I only mentioned it because your side always brings it up but you ignore that Russia never intended to follow it and violated its provisions before the ink was dry.
In any case, there is no way that Russia’s staged referendums can be verified as representing the true views of the population.
My side is the American taxpayers side, yours is the uninformed Neocon side.
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