Ukraine war: Borrowed time for Bakhmut as Russians close in

BBC ^ | 02/08/2023 | Orla Guerin

[thegagline]

The soil of Bakhmut is dusted with snow and soaked with blood. This small city in Eastern Ukraine is at the centre of an epic battle. For more than six months Russian forces have tried to claim it. Ukrainian troops have resisted, giving rise to the popular slogan here "Bakhmut holds." Now the Russians are attacking from three sides, with regular troops and fighters from the notorious Wagner mercenary group. The Russians have reached one of the main highways into the city, and are closing in on the outskirts. There is house-to-house fighting in some areas on the outskirts, with "hard battles for every home" according to the Ukrainian military. It feels like Bakhmut is on borrowed time. ***

But Ukraine is counting the cost and there's speculation it could withdraw to avoid further heavy losses.

In the Kremlin, a clock is ticking - counting down to the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of its neighbour, on 24 February 2022. President Putin wants a victory before then. Taking Bakhmut would give him one, and bring him closer to his aim of capturing all of the mineral rich Donbas region. To reach Bakhmut you drive along winding back roads. The route we used for previous trips last September is now classed as "suicidal" because of constant Russian attacks. The city is now a shell. The thud of incoming and outgoing fire echoes through empty streets. Missiles have punched holes through buildings. Power and water supplies are long gone, along with most of the pre-war population of about 70,000. *** "These heights are more important for the Russians than Bakhmut itself," said a Ukrainian colleague. "If they can bring their artillery here, they can target bigger cities like Kramatorsk and Slovyansk. " Bakhmut holds, for now, but for how much longer.

[Forward the Light Brigade]

Bakhmut is only the first step in a bid to retake the oblast of Donbas. Lots of folks will die and the city will need to be rebuilt from the foundations up. It will be a showplace in the future. I hope this breaks the back of resistance and the peace talks can start. Ukraine must give up the east and Crimea—they didn’t want to be part of your nation anyway. Too many people have died.

[silverleaf]

The only ones spared will be those that surrender
Bakhmut is now in final cleanup….will soon be renamed Artymovsk

Some estimates up to 10k Uke troops left with no resupply or reinforcement
One report retreating Ukes “ accidentally” destroyed last bridge over river that divides Bakhmut leaving one unit to swim for their lives leaving behind all equipment, trapping multiple units left behind

The battle line is already moving west and north to Chasiv Yar and beyond, to the Uke 2d ( or 3d) line of defense from Slavyansk to Kramatorsk, cutting off Uke resupply lines, sucking more Uke troops into Russian artillery

Meanwhile a couple hundred thousand fresh trained equipped Russian troops sit waiting on the border with Kharkov and in Belarus

[montag813]

And then the war ends? Ukraine gives up with Leopards, Bradleys and GLSDB's on the way?

Pentagon said no Bradleys till 2025

[ozarker]

Is this going to delay our victory parade through moscow? Has WEF decided yet on how to strip-mine russia? How are they going to divide up russia’s resources, by region or by mineral types?

[13foxtrot]

Has WEF decided yet on how to strip-mine russia? How are they going to divide up russia’s resources, by region or by mineral types?

WEF is strip mining resources from the US taxpayers. Sooner or later, after enough young men have been killed, this war will be ended. But the strip mining of US resources will have just begun as of course the West will pay whatever it takes to rebuild Ukraine.

[tlozo]

They seem to be of the opinion that Bakhmut will never fall to the Ruskies.

No, what dissenters are saying is, so what, if/when Bakhmut falls. The war is over? Ukraine was continually retreating from May to Aug until Russians were forced to retreat/withdraw in Sept around Kharkiv.

[tlozo]

Pentagon said no Bradleys till 2025

I think you mean Abrams tanks. The first 60 US Bradleys are already on a ship heading to Europe.

The first shipment of more than 60 Bradley M2A2-ODS Fighting Vehicles promised to Ukraine has left port, according to U.S. Transportation Command.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-m2-bradleys-have-begun-their-voyage-to-the-battlefield

[House Atreides]

“ Bakhmut is going to fall to the Russians.”
*********************************************

I don’t think the Russians are in any hurry to “take” Bakhmut in its entirety. They’ve been trying to engage where there will not be excessive Russian casualties. Their operations are largely in a manner that forces the Ukrainians to reveal their locations and dispositions. Then Russian artillery pounds the hell out of those locations.

[tlozo]

they didn’t want to be part of your nation anyway.

Every province that Putin annexed, except for Crimea, had a Ukrainian ethnic majority.

Russia troops open fire on peaceful protesters in occupied city of Kherson

[RonaldusMagnus-DonaldusMagnus]

Why do Freepers that reject the official narrative on the Russo-Ukranian war have to be labeled as ‘pro-Russian’ or ‘anti-Ukranian’.

I'm not anti anybody. I wish that Europeans, nay, the entire world would live in peace and harmony

I reject the arguments coming from those who do accept the official narrative on the Russo-Ukranian war; they claim that Russia is an existential threat to the world, the second incarnation of the Soviet Union. I find those arguments baseless and infantile.

After all, was it Putin that demanded lockdowns, mandated vaccines and damaged, perhaps irreparably, the US economy? You know the answer.

The west could have, nay, should have, forged an alliance with post-Soviet Russia, a new Christendom, if you will, to combat the the elephant in the room, the real existential threat to peace and stability, the CCP.

[srmanuel]

NATO airstrikes mean USA airstrikes, which I would be totally against, because that means a full-on land war with Russia, something the USA should have no part of.

[silverleaf]

I think the time has come for the Russians to end Bakhmut, and they ( Wagner) are taking more risks and losses to finish the job.

At one time Ukraine had 60,000-90,000 troops in this battle zone. The meat grinder has taken a huge toll and served its mission.

The battlefront is moving west through Chasiv Yar toward Kramatorsk and Slavyansk, Russia cannot leave a Uke occupation force of thousands behind their lines. Time to kill or capture those UKA that don’t escape through their artillery.

Speed also critical so the Ukes in final extremis don’t destroy infrastructure and kill as many civilians as they can ( up to 7,000 remained in city of 70,000); once human shields are no longer needed they can be massacred so Russia can be blamed for atrocities. These are, after all, mostly Russian speakers from Donetsk,..therefore “ traitors” if left behind.

[silverleaf]

Looking at how the vote went in 2010, it seems pro- Russian Yanukovych had eastern Ukraine. Whoever thought drawing political lines around this diverse ethnic population was realistic if the governing regime in Kiev was absolutely increasingly devoted to eliminating - absolutely hating - ethnic and cultural diversity as an enemy threat to a “ pure” Ukrainian nation.

[tlozo]

Looking at how the vote went in 2010, it seems pro- Russian Yanukovych had eastern Ukraine.

Voting for a ethnic Russian presidential candidate is quite different than voting to join Russia. All these areas voted for independence in ‘91 overwhelmingly except Crimea.

[silverleaf]

And this was the previous election ( 2004?) which shows the cultural/ ethnic divide to be prounced. It’s not like the West didn’t see this coming when Victoria Nuland and co selected and installed a Russophobic nationalist regime after the 2014 coup and then picked a foolish weak inexperienced compromised clown like Zelensky to ride into the presidency on a false “ peace” ticket in 2019…knowing that NATO was building Ukraine military for future war with Russia under the deception of Minsk Accords negotiations solely to placate Putin

[PGR88]

New Narrative: Who needs Bakhmut anyway? There’s nothing there. The goal was just to occupy Russians while Ukraine waited for awesome Germany and US tanks, etc....

[tlozo]

And this was the previous election ( 2004?) which shows the cultural/ ethnic divide to be prounced.

Here is Sweden. According to your "blue/red" logic, half of Sweden wants to join russia too. Its stupid

[silverleaf]

Ya think Ukranians in 1991 got the “ independence” they expected?
You think the 2014 US sponsored overthrow of their elected president, the murder and crackdown on protesters in Odessa and elsewhere, the corruption of their government, their failure to reach EU economic requirements for membership, and subsequent 8 year brutal civil war ….convinced the Donbass they were part of a great big happy Ukrainian culture?

Remember the tricksters under Minsk were negotiating to keep them in Ukraine, but with autonomy to keep their culture and guaranteed political relresentation.
Remember the FIRST law passed by their new “government” in 2014? Outlawing language political and education standards. Priorities eh.

It was actually the Russian Duma that recognized them as part of Russia. The integration of Donbass into a militantly Russophobic Ukrainian state…was never going to work.

[silverleaf]

How many laws has Sweden passed banning ethnic languages and cultures, and how many artillery shells has it lobbed at their towns?

[lodi90]

Why have the Ukrainians not evacuated all civilians???

---

Some people are poor and feel they have nowhere to go. Some are pro-Russian Quislings and want to stay. Some are old and would rather die than leave. Etc.