Posted on 01/10/2023 11:56:27 AM PST by delta7
First Zelensky shuts down opposing politicians, then shuts down all opposition media. Now he’s going after the Russian Orthodox Church because he suspects they might be preaching something contrary to his agenda. We raise hell when China goes after the Christian churches in that country, demanding that they be allowed to vet out any bishops that might preach something the CCP doesn’t like, but it’s fine when Zelensky does basically the same thing? I can’t imagine how any true conservative could be ok with this, whether they are religious themselves or not. Separation of Church and State used to be sacrosanct, I guess not any more in the new globohomo world order. I can’t believe some posters here are fine with this.
Simply put, Russian Orthodox churches in Ukraine are often used as a base for Russian intelligence operations. In the emergency of wartime in Ukraine, there is little alternative but to shutter Russian Orthodox churches until the situation can be sorted out.
Doing that is a like interning Japanese, German, and Italian civilians in the US during the early years of World War Two. Yes, a massive civil rights violation, but a wartime necessity. At the time, the FBI and military intelligence knew of but could not find and shut down over a dozen Axis spy and sabotage rings. Mass internment though shut almost all of them all down, with every covert spy radio transmitter in the US then going dark. Axis spying and sabotage in the US went from a major, active menace to a minor worry.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-jails-four-jehovahs-witnesses-adherents-up-seven-years-prison-2022-12-20/
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2019/may/russian-evangelicals-anti-missionary-fined-yarovaya-law.html
“ There doesn’t seem to be much traffic left on FR. War cheerleaders are offensive, anti-American, and stupid.”
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They are on a FEVERISH pro-war jihad. Their HYPERACTIVE posting of all pro-Ukrainian government propaganda they can get their hands on is mind boggling. I just wish they were as hyperactive in supporting FreeRepublic but they’re apparently saving their money for other “projects”.
The leader of the Russian Orthodox church has enthusiastically supported Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine. He rose through the ranks in the Soviet Union before Putin attained power in Russia:
“Experts say Kirill is a complex figure in Russian politics: smart, charismatic and an ambitious operator. He rose in the ranks of the Russian Orthodox Church during the Soviet period — when the communist government viewed religion as an archaic relic of oppression —”
“To be fair, to become a church leader in the Soviet Union and get anything done at the time, you had to be affiliated with the KGB,” Michels said.
There are plenty of photos of Russian Orthordox priests blessing Russian nuclear ICBMs on one close associate of Kirill called for genocide of Ukrainians
Thanks for the common sense. The simple fact is that too many of the Russian orthodox personnel and priests in Ukraine have been acting as Putin’s agents and as Russia’s agents. There is a war going on. They can skedaddle back to Russia.
Same as millions of Ukrainians have been displaced.
Ukraine ping
Reaganez: [Because the Russian Orthodox Church is an extension of the KGB.]
SoConPubbie: [Proof?]
It is alleged that the Estonian branch of the KGB recruited Alexy as an agent on 28 February 1958, just days after his 29th birthday, assigning him the codename “Drozdov” (he had completed his dissertation on Metropolitan Filaret Drozdov). The report detailing his recruitment makes clear that the KGB contacted Alexy, then still a simple priest, because they expected him to succeed John (Alekseev) as Bishop of the Russian Orthodox diocese of Tallinn and Estonia (and he was in fact appointed to this post less than three years later).[27] Among his KGB assignments was one in 1983, when he was sent to the Pskov-Caves Monastery to “pacify” rebellious monks.[28]
The reports further allege that Alexander Grigoryev, a KGB officer in Leningrad under cover as Orthodox priest Fr Alexander was his case officer for a while.[29] According to Oleg Gordievsky, Alexy II worked for the KGB for forty years, and his case officer was Nikolai Patrushev.[citation needed] In February 1988, exactly 30 years after his recruitment, the KGB chairman awarded him the Certificate of Honour.[20] ]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Kirill_of_Moscow#KGB_affiliation
[Forbes reported on 20 February 2009 that, “Kirill, who was the Metropolitan of Smolensk, succeeds Alexei II who died in December after 18 years as head of the Russian Church. According to material from the Soviet archives, Kirill was a KGB agent (as was Alexei). This means he was more than just an informer, of whom there were millions in the Soviet Union. He was an active officer of the organization. Neither Kirill nor Alexei ever acknowledged or apologized for their ties with the security agencies.”[103]
Further reporting from 7 March 2022 from The Guardian’s Emma Graham-Harrison interviewed local Ukrainians for their opinions about Kirill and the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine. The response was mostly a pessimistic view of Kirill and his motives towards Ukraine based on his past as a KGB agent:
Like many Ukrainians who no longer trust the Russian-linked churches in their country, Yuir is particularly wary of the Moscow Patriarch, Kirill, who according to material from Soviet archives was a government agent before the fall of the USSR. “Kirill is a KGB guy, and he supports all aggression against Ukraine,” he said, but asked not to give his last name, worried like many in the town about community tensions about the church. “He’s a bastard, not a religious leader.”[104]]
So basically, a lot of opinions posted on Wikipedia?
Yawn.
Stuff happens when you allow your church to become a defacto branch of the Russian government.
You must have gotten beaten up by a Ukranian when you were a kid. The hate is strong in you.
[So basically, a lot of opinions posted on Wikipedia?]
Gordievsky is a well-known defector. His books are available on Amazon. There are plenty of other books and essays about the existence of the Russian Orthodox Church as an arm of the Russian state long before Red October.
The thing about rabid Russophiles is that they don’t really want to know and that’s fine. I’m pointing this out for people who know nothing about the Russian Orthodox Church’s background and think it works just like the Catholic or evangelical churches, which are generally divorced from state influence. In reality, the Russian Orthodox Church is just a hand puppet of the tsar of the moment and nothing like the churches outside of Russia. A more accurate name would be the Russian Tsar’s Church.
Zhang Fei brought referenced historical materials to the discussion. You are welcome to present materials to counter his assertion that the ROC is a tool of the russian state. Snarling, hand-waving and dismissing without presenting any articulate counter-argument persuades no one.
About 11% of the Ukrainian population is Catholic (the Ukrainian Catholic Church is in communion with the pope, but uses the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom). How has Putin treated the Ukrainian Catholic Church in the parts of Ukraine under his control?
The Ukrainian Catholic church is mostly in western Ukraine.
And they have been persecuted by various Russian governments.
The Ukrainian Orthodox church is persecuted by Putin in the Donbas and Crimea
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