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Has NATO’s Strategy To Bleed Russia Backfired?
Sonar 21 ^ | December 23, 2022 | Larry Johnson

Posted on 12/24/2022 8:54:51 AM PST by Kazan

My short answer to the question — Yes! I received an interesting response to my request for opinions on what constitutes the “Endgame” in Ukraine from a man named Matt. Here is his analysis:

The end game is to diminish/weaken Russia. The US has determined they cannot fight and win a war against both China and Russia. The US and it’s allies have sought to pick off the weaker of the two. The longer the US bleeds out Russia, via Ukraine, the better. Not all NATO (think Germany) were onboard with the plan. Hence, NATO starts talks with Ukraine about joining. Such talk provoked a response from Russia. Blowing up Nordstream forced Germany fully on board. The US/NATO will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. NATO weakens Russia; US clears the decks to more capably deal with China; arms manufacturers make money, and politicians skim money here and there. The way the conflict is currently postured, this can go on for some time, all of which benefits US/NATO. Last thought, the EU will need to take laboring oar on rebuild. Current projections are $1 trillion and rising. EU will need to issue bonds. Interest rates currently too high. Plus, you get into problems between the rich northern countries, and poorer southern countries ((PIGS)). The US won’t publicly announce they win by weakening Russia, by taking away a Chinese ally, and saddling Europe with a generation of debt, but that seems to be happening. What do you think?

My response — “Matt, Thank you for taking the time to write something thoughtful. I think the facts on the ground contradict you. For example, the US economy is in recession with the added whammy of inflation. Russia’s economy is growing not shrinking. It is the United States that cannot supply Ukraine with an adequate supply of artillery rounds and HIMMARs. Russia by contrast is not running out of weapons/missiles. It continues to fire and hit targets in Ukraine. It is the US that is bleeding out.

Why do you believe that the US is so strong militarily? We no longer meet recruiting goals and the military leadership is more worried about proper pronouns rather than a competent military.”

I think Matt is correct observed that the original plan of the United States and NATO was to “bleed out” Russia. The phrase, “bleed out,” refers to an arterial wound that cannot be staunched. A person with such a wound will die within four minutes if the bleeding is not stopped. Only one little problem — Russia ain’t bleeding; it is NATO and the United States that are hemorrhaging.

The Wall Street Journal published a news item this week making this very point, Europe Is Rushing Arms to Ukraine but Running Out of Ammo:

Europe, home to some of the world’s largest weapons manufacturers, is struggling to produce enough ammunition for Ukraine and for itself, jeopardizing NATO’s defense capacity and its support for Kyiv, officials and industry leaders say.

A lack of production capacity, a dearth of specialized workers, supply-chain bottlenecks, high costs of financing and even environmental regulations are putting a brake on efforts to increase output, presenting the West and Ukraine with a fresh challenge for next year.

The United States and its European allies have been deceived by their use of military force over the last 30 years. They have never had to fight a peer nation with the capability to produce all of its own military equipment that is on par with what the West relies on. They have deployed their military forces against ill-equipped, poorly trained armies that lacked air power and effective artillery and tank forces. The United States and NATO were lulled into a state of complacency.

Compounding the problem was the decision of the West to shift much of its manufacturing capability to foreign countries. American can no longer do what it did in the wake of Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, when the United States switched its massive industrial base into manufacturing tanks, planes, ammunition, battleships and air craft carriers. Modern day America specializes in producing grotesquely expensive, unreliable weapons that take months and years to appear on a battlefield.

This also is an intelligence failure. It appears the CIA bought into the nonsense that Russia had a small, weak economy and would crumbled in the face of Western sanctions. A real analyst would have raised the fact that sanctions, historically, have been ineffective in forcing regime change. Cuba and Iran are primary examples. It looks like the CIA donned its cheerleading uniform, complete with Blue and Yellow pom poms, and parroted the lie that Russia could not produce the rockets, artillery shells and precision missiles to support a long war. We are ten months into Russia’s “Special Military Operation” and they continue to shred Ukraine’s troops and infrastructure like a lethal Energizer Bunny — those pesky Rooskies keep going and going.

We enter the New Year under a dark and dangerous cloud. The failure of the United States and NATO to stop Russia may lead the Western alliance to act with more desperation and recklessness. Russia, for its part, admitted as much this week and is taking steps to bulk up its forces in the event this escalates into a World War. I continue to pray for peace, but there are no Western leaders embracing that approach. They are pinning their hopes on getting rid of Vladimir Putin without taking a moment to consider that Putin’s replacement would likely be more nationalistic and less inclined to negotiate. We are living in an historic, epochal moment that likely signifies the beginning of the end of American dominance in world affairs.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cuba; democult; dontbelieve; fuhrerbunker1945; iran; itsacult; larryjohnson; liberalworldorder; northkorea; notcredible; prowarcult; putin; russia; russianlies; ukraine; ukrainetruththread; venezuela
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To: marktwain

It certainly makes sense, as China has been riding high, the last year especially. Notwithstanding its own domestic problems, they are making hay all around the world while the EU and US government pay homage and treasure to a hitherto little-known foreign oligarch of questionable provenance.

And by what vital American interest is this distortion of policy justified? Alarmists fear that Putin has grandiose designs on the rest of Europe, that he threatens to lunch some kind of latter-day blitzkrieg, even while they disparage his military as a bunch of mercenaries and untrained cannon fodder. In reality, a glance at geography says that the worst domino effect possible is “as Ukraine goes, so goes Moldova.”

NATO’s ‘strategy” may not have exactly backfired, but it has definitely been costly, self defeating, and corrosive to the vaunted “unity’ of the West. Military and economic strain aside, the energy crisis resulting from NATO sanctions has seen to that.


61 posted on 12/24/2022 11:48:39 AM PST by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative )
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To: Rockingham

“(Russia’s) economy is in fact cratering”

Link please.


62 posted on 12/24/2022 11:58:52 AM PST by BobL
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To: Cathi; mac_truck; JonPreston; Kazan; PGR88; laplata; Navy Patriot
Interestingly, I was listening to Alex Christoforou this morning as he reported on the Andriivka news.

I had a Google map of Artemivsk [Bakhmut] up - but I couldn't locate Andriivka [directly south-southwest] on that Goolag map.

Switched to Bing maps, and there it was...

63 posted on 12/24/2022 12:03:00 PM PST by kiryandil (put yer vote in the box, chump. HARHARHARHAR)
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To: blueunicorn6

“Democrats like you post on FR to try and muddle things up.”

Enough Republicans do have their hands in this mess too. Bush Jr. FLAT OUT said that he lied to Putin in 2008 regarding NATO not expanding into Ukraine. Merkel also admitted that West LIED about Minsk 2. Democrats, of course, lie to everyone (even some here when they support Ukraine).

It seems everyone has been lying non-stop, well, other than Russia, who said that Ukraine was a Red Line and now are showing the world that they don’t lie.


64 posted on 12/24/2022 12:03:45 PM PST by BobL
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To: dfwgator

“Meanwhile China sits back and eats popcorn.”

Correct...at this point. But if the West somehow succeeds and starts to weaken Russia with the idea of putting a puppet in Moscow...I just wonder whether China will continue to sit back, or, instead, possibly help their new friend to fight off their common enemy (the Neocons).


65 posted on 12/24/2022 12:07:44 PM PST by BobL
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To: kiryandil
Yes, the Googles, They Are Evil.

And woke censors, too.

66 posted on 12/24/2022 12:11:36 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Celebrate Decivilization)
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To: kiryandil

I subscribe to Alex Christoforou and also watch him as much as possible. Sharp man.

You encountered typical Google censorship.


67 posted on 12/24/2022 12:14:35 PM PST by laplata (They want each crisis to take the greatest toll possible.)
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To: BobL

“It seems everyone has been lying non-stop, well, other than Russia...”

Do people even read the traitorous slop you are dishing out?

Everyone lied to poor honest boy scout Vladimir Putin. What a great guy!


68 posted on 12/24/2022 12:19:22 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: BobL

More insanity from a propagandist.

“China will be easier to deal with if Russia wins in Ukraine.”

Yeah that’s the ticket. Not.


69 posted on 12/24/2022 12:21:27 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: Kazan

Conspiracy theorists are helping the Democrats by bleeding the Republican Party. They slander the Republican Party by falsely associating themselves with it. Kick their handful of crazy talking politicians out.


70 posted on 12/24/2022 12:26:17 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: Williams

“China will be easier to deal with if Russia wins in Ukraine.”

Not sure why you believe that, but no one takes you seriously here anyway.


71 posted on 12/24/2022 12:41:52 PM PST by BobL
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To: All

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN (FIRST PUBLISHED IN 2018)

By Sharon Tennison, founder of ‘The Center for Citizen Initiatives’ that arranges extended trips to Russia by American VIPs meeting Russians at all levels of society.

February 7, 2018

Friends and colleagues,
As the Ukraine situation has worsened, unconscionable misinformation and hype is being poured on Russia and Vladimir Putin.

Journalists and pundits must scour the Internet and thesauruses to come up with fiendish new epithets to describe both.

Wherever I make presentations across America, the first question ominously asked during Q&A is always, “What about Putin?”.

It’s time to share my thoughts which follow: Putin obviously has his faults and makes mistakes. Based on my earlier experience with him, and the experiences of trusted people, including U.S. officials who have worked closely with him over a period of years, Putin most likely is a straight, reliable and exceptionally inventive man. He is obviously a long-term thinker and planner and has proven to be an excellent analyst and strategist. He is a leader who can quietly work toward his goals under mounds of accusations and myths that have been steadily leveled at him since he became Russia’s second president.

I’ve stood by silently watching the demonization of Putin grow since it began in the early 2000’s –– I pondered on computer my thoughts and concerns, hoping eventually to include them in a book (which was published in 2011).

The book explains my observations more thoroughly than this article. Like others who have had direct experience with this little known man, I’ve tried to no avail to avoid being labeled a “Putin apologist”.

If one is even neutral about him, they are considered “soft on Putin” by pundits, news hounds and average citizens who get their news from CNN, Fox and MSNBC.

I don’t pretend to be an expert, just a program developer in the USSR and Russia for the past 30 years. But during this time, I have had far more direct, on-ground contact with Russians of all stripes across 11 time zones than any of the Western reporters or for that matter any of Washington’s officials.

I’ve been in country long enough to ponder Russian history and culture deeply, to study their psychology and conditioning, and to understand the marked differences between American and Russian mentalities which so complicate our political relations with their leaders.

As with personalities in a family or a civic club or in a city hall, it takes understanding and compromise to be able to create workable relationships when basic conditionings are different. Washington has been notoriously disinterested in understanding these differences and attempting to meet Russia halfway.

In addition to my personal experience with Putin, I’ve had discussions with numerous American officials and U.S. businessmen who have had years of experience working with him – I believe it is safe to say that none would describe him as “brutal” or “thuggish”, or the other slanderous adjectives and nouns that are repeatedly used in western media.

I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia, as did many of us working in St. Petersburg during the 1990’s.

Since all of the slander started, I’ve become nearly obsessed with understanding his character. I think I’ve read every major speech he has given (including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone “talk-ins” with Russian citizens).

I’ve been trying to ascertain whether he has changed for the worse since being elevated to the presidency, or whether he is a straight character cast into a role he never anticipated – and is using sheer wits to try to do the best he can to deal with Washington under extremely difficult circumstances.

If the latter is the case, and I think it is, he should get high marks for his performance over the past 14 years. It’s not by accident that Forbes declared him the most Powerful Leader of 2013, replacing Obama who was given the title for 2012.

The following is my one personal experience with Putin. The year was 1992: It was two years after the implosion of communism; the place was St. Petersburg. For years I had been creating programs to open up relations between the two countries and hopefully to help Soviet people to get beyond their entrenched top-down mentalities.

A new program possibility emerged in my head. Since I expected it might require a signature from the Marienskii City Hall, an appointment was made. My friend Volodya Shestakov and I showed up at a side door entrance to the Marienskii building. We found ourselves in a small, dull brown office, facing a rather trim nondescript man in a brown suit. He inquired about my reason for coming in. After scanning the proposal I provided, he began asking intelligent questions.

After each of my answers, he asked the next relevant question. I became aware that this interviewer was different from other Soviet bureaucrats who always seemed to fall into chummy conversations with foreigners with hopes of obtaining bribes in exchange for the Americans’ requests. CCI stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor.
After more than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about the proposal were uttered. That was all.

He simply and kindly showed us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, “Volodya, this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who didn’t ask us for a trip to the U.S. or something valuable!”
I remember looking at his business card in the sunlight – it read Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

December 31, 1999: With no warning, at the turn of the year, President Boris Yeltsin made the announcement to the world that from the next day forward he was vacating his office and leaving Russia in the hands of an unknown Vladimir Putin. On hearing the news, I thought surely not the Putin I remembered – he could never lead Russia. The next day a New York Times article included a photo. Yes, it was the same Putin I’d met years ago! I was shocked and dismayed, telling friends, “This is a disaster for Russia, I’ve spent time with this guy, he is too introverted and too intelligent – he will never be able to relate to Russia’s masses.”

Further, I lamented: “For Russia to get up off of its knees, two things must happen: 1) The arrogant young oligarchs have to be removed by force from the Kremlin, and 2) A way must be found to remove the regional bosses (governors) from their fiefdoms across Russia’s 89 regions”. It was clear to me that the man in the brown suit would never have the instincts or guts to tackle Russia’s overriding twin challenges.

February 2000: Almost immediately Putin began putting Russia’s oligarchs on edge. In February a question about the oligarchs came up; he clarified with a question and his answer: “What should be the relationship with the so-called oligarchs? The same as anyone else. The same as the owner of a small bakery or a shoe repair shop.”

This was the first signal that the tycoons would no longer be able to flaunt government regulations or count on special access in the Kremlin. It also made the West’s capitalists nervous. After all, these oligarchs were wealthy untouchable businessmen – good capitalists, never mind that they got their enterprises illegally and were putting their profits in offshore banks.

Four months later Putin called a meeting with the oligarchs and gave them his deal: They could keep their illegally-gained, wealth-producing Soviet enterprises and they would not be nationalized …. IF taxes were paid on their revenues and if they personally stayed out of politics.

This was the first of Putin’s “elegant solutions” to the near impossible challenges facing the new Russia. But the deal also put Putin in the cross hairs with U.S. media and officials who then began to champion the oligarchs, particularly Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The latter became highly political, didn’t pay taxes, and, prior to being apprehended and jailed, was in the process of selling a major portion of Russia’s largest private oil company, Yukos Oil, to Exxon Mobil. Unfortunately, to U.S. media and governing structures, Khodorkovsky became a martyr (and remains so up to today).

March 2000: I arrived in St. Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, “Lena, what do you think about your new president?” She laughed and retorted, “Volodya! I went to school with him!” She began to describe Putin as a quiet youngster, poor, fond of martial arts, who stood up for kids being bullied on the playgrounds. She remembered him as a patriotic youth who applied for the KGB prematurely after graduating secondary school (they sent him away and told him to get an education). He went to law school, later reapplied and was accepted.

I must have grimaced at this, because Lena said, “Sharon, in those days we all admired the KGB and believed that those who worked there were patriots and were keeping the country safe. We thought it was natural for Volodya to choose this career.” My next question was, “What do you think he will do with Yeltsin’s criminals in the Kremlin?” Putting on her psychologist hat, she pondered and replied, “If left to his normal behaviors, he will watch them for a while to be sure what is going on, then he will throw up some flares to let them know that he is watching. If they don’t respond, he will address them personally, then if the behaviors don’t change – some will be in prison in a couple of years.”

I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to show up in real time.

Throughout the 2000’s: St. Petersburg’s many CCI alumni were being interviewed to determine how the PEP business training program was working and how we could make the U.S. experience more valuable for their new small businesses. Most believed that the program had been enormously important, even life changing.

Last, each was asked, “So what do you think of your new president?” None responded negatively, even though at that time entrepreneurs hated Russia’s bureaucrats. Most answered similarly, “Putin registered my business a few years ago”.
Next question, “So, how much did it cost you?” To a person they replied, “Putin didn’t charge anything”. One said, “We went to Putin’s desk because the others providing registrations at the Marienskii were getting ‘rich on their seats.’”

Late 2000: Into Putin’s first year as Russia’s president, U.S. officials seemed to me to be suspect that he would be antithetical to America’s interests – his every move was called into question in American media. I couldn’t understand why and was chronicling these happenings in my computer and newsletters.

Year 2001: Jack Gosnell (former USCG) explained his relationship with Putin when the latter was deputy mayor of St. Petersburg. The two of them worked closely to create joint ventures and other ways to promote relations between the two countries. Jack related that Putin was always straight up, courteous and helpful.

When Putin’s wife, Ludmila, was in a severe auto accident, Jack took the liberty (before informing Putin) to arrange hospitalization and airline travel for her to get medical care in Finland. When Jack told Putin, he reported that the latter was overcome by the generous offer, but ended saying that he couldn’t accept this favor, that Ludmila would have to recover in a Russian hospital. She did – although medical care in Russia was abominably bad in the 1990’s.

A senior CSIS officer I was friends with in the 2000’s worked closely with Putin on a number of joint ventures during the 1990’s. He reported that he had no dealings with Putin that were questionable, that he respected him and believed he was getting an undeserved dour reputation from U.S. media. Matter of fact, he closed the door at CSIS when we started talking about Putin. I guessed his comments wouldn’t be acceptable if others were listening.

Another former U.S. official who will go unidentified, also reported working closely with Putin, saying there was never any hint of bribery, pressuring, nothing but respectable behaviors and helpfulness.

I had two encounters in 2013 with State Department officials regarding Putin: At the first one, I felt free to ask the question I had previously yearned to get answered: “When did Putin become unacceptable to Washington officials and why?”
Without hesitating the answer came back: “The knives were drawn when it was announced that Putin would be the next president.” I questioned WHY?

The answer: “I could never find out why – maybe because he was KGB.” I offered that Bush #1, was head of the CIA.
The reply was, “That would have made no difference, he was our guy.”

The second was a former State Department official with whom I recently shared a radio interview on Russia. Afterward when we were chatting, I remarked, “You might be interested to know that I’ve collected experiences of Putin from numerous people, some over a period of years, and they all say they had no negative experiences with Putin and there was no evidence of taking bribes.” He firmly replied, “No one has ever been able to come up with a bribery charge against Putin.”

From 2001 up to today, I’ve watched the negative U.S. media mounting against Putin – even accusations of assassinations, poisonings, and comparing him to Hitler. No one yet has come up with any concrete evidence for these allegations.

During this time, I’ve traveled throughout Russia several times every year, and have watched the country slowly change under Putin’s watch. Taxes were lowered, inflation lessened, and laws slowly put in place. Schools and hospitals began improving. Small businesses were growing, agriculture was showing improvement, and stores were becoming stocked with food.

Alcohol challenges were less obvious, smoking was banned from buildings, and life expectancy began increasing. Highways were being laid across the country, new rails and modern trains appeared even in far out places, and the banking industry was becoming dependable.

Russia was beginning to look like a decent country –– certainly not where Russians hoped it to be long term, but improving incrementally for the first time in their memories.

End of Part I


72 posted on 12/24/2022 1:08:27 PM PST by Cathi
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To: BobL

You are the one who said that.

Oy


73 posted on 12/24/2022 1:33:50 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: Cathi

You come here with this excrement about what great guy Putin is.

Despicable.


74 posted on 12/24/2022 1:35:54 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: Kazan

Free Republic. New home for straight up anti American, anti Western and pro Russian propaganda.


75 posted on 12/24/2022 1:38:47 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: Williams

“You are the one who said that.”

Prove it.


76 posted on 12/24/2022 1:39:17 PM PST by BobL
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To: Williams

“Do people even read the traitorous slop you are dishing out?”

Russia said Ukraine was a Red Line, A RED LINE (in case you didn’t hear me), and you guys STILL crossed it.

Good luck putting this genie back in the bottle.


77 posted on 12/24/2022 1:41:05 PM PST by BobL
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To: BobL

I read your post. You argued that China is going to be harder to deal with because we stood up to Russia.

Do you want to now say the opposite? If so I’ll be glad to agree with you.


78 posted on 12/24/2022 1:42:48 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: BobL

Yeah we crossed a line with the whole Russian army invading Ukraine.

You couldn’t get reality more backwards using mirrors.


79 posted on 12/24/2022 1:44:48 PM PST by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: Williams

“I read your post. You argued that China is going to be harder to deal with because we stood up to Russia.”

Which post? I’m confused because there is NO WAY that Russia is not going to win in Ukraine. It’s only a matter of what’s left of the West, in the end.


80 posted on 12/24/2022 1:45:00 PM PST by BobL
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