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To: bravo whiskey

The question is why it flew to Poland when the targets are in the opposite direction. Regarding s-300, the operator has a high degree of control. You can self-destructbit manually.


89 posted on 11/17/2022 7:49:36 AM PST by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking

I’m wondering when Zelensky is going to have to learn the lesson of Izetbegovic.

Explanation for those who do not remember:

We sabotaged the Lisbon Agreement in 1992, when NATO’s raison d’être was beginning to be questioned following the downfall and breakup of the old USSR. No way were we going to give up one of our fave levers of power:


“On 18 March 1992, all three sides signed the agreement; Alija Izetbegović for the Bosniaks, Radovan Karadžić for the Bosnian Serbs and Mate Boban for the Bosnian Croats. On 28 March 1992, after a meeting with US ambassador to Yugoslavia Warren Zimmermann in Sarajevo, Izetbegović withdrew his signature and declared his opposition to any division of Bosnia. What was said and by whom remains unclear. Warren Zimmermann denied that he told Izetbegović that if he withdrew his signature, the United States would grant recognition to Bosnia as an independent state. What is indisputable is that on the same day Izetbegović withdrew his signature and renounced the agreement.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_plans_proposed_before_and_during_the_Bosnian_War#Carrington%E2%80%93Cutileiro_plan

Under Clinton’s Dayton Accords of 1995, the Bosnian Muslims got slightly *less* territory than under Lisbon. There had been a few other peace plans floated between Lisbon and Dayton, but the US always objected the Bosnian Muslims did not get enough map. I’ll never forget the look on Izetbegovic’s face at Dayton. All that death and destruction, only to end up with less. But we proved our point: only the Americans are allowed to make (or break) peace, and NATO is a “necessary” enforcer.

Anyway, however this turns out, Ukraine would have been better off with Minsk II. Too bad we didn’t want Minsk.


92 posted on 11/17/2022 8:31:04 AM PST by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: NorseViking; CatHerd
This isn't even the first time Ukraine has tried to involve Poland to the point where Poland had to clap back: let's recall that, from much earlier in the conflict back in March, Ukraine's government trumpeted an alleged plan to allow their fighter pilots to take off from NATO bases in Poland, only to be swiftly denied.

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Over the course of a confusing 48 hours, the EU announced it had brokered an arrangement for member states to allow Ukrainian pilots to start flying their used Russian fighter planes, only to have those countries deny there was any such deal even as Kyiv trumpeted the impending arrival of the jets.

The dissolution of the deal comes as European countries lined up Monday to announce new weapons packages for Ukraine, from anti-armor and anti-air rockets to artillery and medical supplies.

But the announcement Sunday by EU security chief Josep Borrell that fighter jets were also on their way appeared to be a game-changer for European military assistance. Borrell was forced to walk his pronouncement back somewhat by Monday, acknowledging that any transfers wouldn’t come from the EU itself, but would instead be donated “bilaterally” by individual EU countries.

Soon after, a Ukrainian government official told POLITICO their country had sent pilots to Poland to pick up the jets and the Ukrainian parliament announced that the planes from Slovakia, Bulgaria and Poland would soon be on their way. But by Tuesday, Bulgaria and Slovakia said there was no deal to send fighters, and the Polish president, appearing at a Polish air base alongside NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg, said no planes would be flying any time soon.

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101 posted on 11/17/2022 9:06:07 AM PST by Ultra Sonic 007 (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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