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To: BroJoeK
Our promises to Ukraine began with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

We did NOT make any promises defend to Ukraine in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

We (Obama & Biden) are as responsible as any for madman Putin's invasions.
Our pathetic weakness in Afghanistan provoked Putin.
We will not like the results if we don't help stop him.

Biden screwed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan yes,
so let Obama and Biden use some of the vast amounts of money they have stolen to defend Ukraine then.

I served in Germany during the Cold War, while madman Putin was still a student at Leningrad University.
Soviets threatened us with nukes and massive tank armies.
We stood strong, and they never moved beyond their post war borders.
The name of our doctrine was MAD. It still is.

First of all, Russia is not the same as the Soviet Union.
Second point is, Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. You forgot to mention that didn't ya?
And third, I don;t remember Brezhnev etc threatening unclear war against Germany etc.
Russia has had nukes almost as long as we have and we have fought plenty pf proxy wars against them including Vietnam, Korea, Angola, Mozambique etc. The Russians have never threateneded to use nukes n any of those wars.

155 posted on 10/23/2022 3:16:22 PM PDT by SmokingJoe ( )
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To: SmokingJoe
SmokingJoe: "We did NOT make any promises defend to Ukraine in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum."

Of course, we did! Read it.
Based on our promises, Ukraine voluntarily gave up its nuclear weapons.
So that was one h*ll of a promise.

SmokingJoe: "Biden screwed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan yes, so let Obama and Biden use some of the vast amounts of money they have stolen to defend Ukraine then."

Ha! Another great suggestion! I'd vote for that in a heartbeat. ;-)

SmokingJoe: "First of all, Russia is not the same as the Soviet Union.
Second point is, Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.
You forgot to mention that didn't ya?"

Ukraine was re-conquered & imprisoned by the Soviets in 1921.
In the 1930s Soviets practiced genocide against Ukraine -- the Holodomor killed millions in Ukraine.
So I would never hold Ukrainians responsible for what insane Soviets did.

SmokingJoe: "And third, I don;t remember Brezhnev etc threatening unclear war against Germany etc.
Russia has had nukes almost as long as we have and we have fought plenty pf proxy wars against them including Vietnam, Korea, Angola, Mozambique etc.
The Russians have never threateneded to use nukes n any of those wars."

"You know nothing, Jon Snow."

The Cold War was all about the Soviet threat to use its nukes if provoked.
And the Soviets had multiple nuclear warheads for every one of ours, everything from relatively "low-yield" short-range tactical nukes to the big intercontinental ballistic missiles with warheads yielding many megaton explosions.

And those nukes didn't just disappear when the Cold War ended -- all they did was flip a switch on each from "on" to "off", that's all.
They were still capable whenever the switches were flipped back again from "off" to "on".

M.A.D. = "Mutually Assured Destruction", look it up.

160 posted on 10/24/2022 7:07:39 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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