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Putin deposed, Russia broken up, and NATO in a face-off with China: As Ukraine sees a path toward victory and a desperate Vladimir hits the panic button
MAILONLINE ^ | 4 October 2022 | CHRIS PLEASANCE

Posted on 10/04/2022 5:08:38 AM PDT by dennisw

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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Spain has gone to a regional autonomy model that has reduced much of the intensity for independence. It continues but isnt quite what it was.

Catalonia has a very big problem as far as independence goes, because throughout the 20th century it attracted millions of migrants from elsewhere in Spain, as Catalunya was an economic powerhouse of the country. On the whole these people dont want an independent Catalunya.

On the occasion of the last Catalan independence referendum there were large and noisy demos, in Barcelona, of people who wanted to remain Spanish.

This is a complex subject, but at this point its likely that ethnic Catalans (however defined) are a minority in their own country.

The Basques arent in such a position, though they were and are also an economic powerhouse. The general political program can be summarized as independence “eventually”, but in the meantime the gameplan is to negotiate even greater autonomy.


101 posted on 10/04/2022 7:21:09 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Abortion numbers are nearly 20 years old...try again.


102 posted on 10/04/2022 7:22:07 AM PDT by BobL (By the way, low tonight in Estonia: 41 degrees)
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To: oblomov

Nevertheless, the question ‘after Putin what?’ needs to be asked and planned for.


103 posted on 10/04/2022 7:27:35 AM PDT by Rummyfan (In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. )
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To: Rummyfan
Nevertheless, the question ‘after Putin what?’ needs to be asked and planned for.

Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - why start now?

104 posted on 10/04/2022 7:28:57 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin
Personally, I think that in general ethnic self-determination is fine.

Just not in Ukraine...or Scotland, Catalonia, etc...got it.

105 posted on 10/04/2022 7:29:39 AM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera )
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To: ScottinVA

Putin will not go quietly into exile nor will he retire to a Black Sea dacha. What does that leave?


106 posted on 10/04/2022 7:30:50 AM PDT by Rummyfan (In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. )
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To: BobL

Can’t Russia is squeamish on facts


107 posted on 10/04/2022 7:30:58 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com (Pray for God's intervention to stop Putin's invasion, )
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To: mac_truck
What is it you have with Scotland? They have the right to "devolve", voted on it, and rejected it. And as I said, I don't really follow Spanish politics and so.have no opinion on Catalonian independence.

The recent referenda in Ukraine were ridiculously bogus so no, the Russian-reported results should not be taken as a fair representation of the sentiments of those who actually live/lived there.

But on the flip side, if you support self-determination, then why shouldn't Russia have granted Chechnya its independence? Instead, it fought two brutal wars to repress the desire of the people of Chechnya for their own country.

108 posted on 10/04/2022 7:34:37 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: MinorityRepublican

I am never pro-Muslim, but in this case I would love to see a Chechen rebellion after Putin is deposed. Putin-Kadyrove have a personal understanding plus a 3 billion dollar bribe to Chechnya each year.

Who comes after Putin will not have this man to man understanding with Kadyrov.

You are right. Putin made his name putting down Chechnya like a rabid dog in 1999 onward. This was done with old Russian army. Obviously, today’s Rus army is incapable of repeating this.


109 posted on 10/04/2022 7:35:02 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: BobL

“Abortion numbers are nearly 20 years old...try again.”

You know all about Russia... So what stats do you have for current Russian abortion numbers? You know they are among the highest in the world, while yr zero-hero Vlad rambles on about the Satanic West.


110 posted on 10/04/2022 7:38:29 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: dynachrome

Read Tom Clancy’s book:

“The Bear and the Dragon”

The Chinese invade Siberia to steal a recent discovery of both oil and diamonds. The Russians join NATO. NATO join the fight to defeat the Chinese.

It was written before the everyone new what a unmanned drone or anti personal cluster bombs were.


111 posted on 10/04/2022 7:38:54 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: dennisw
You are right. Putin made his name putting down Chechnya like a rabid dog in 1999 onward. This was done with old Russian army. Obviously, today’s Rus army is incapable of repeating this.

I'm not sure how impressive that really was. The first war last 18 months, and ended in a ceasefire rather than a true Russian victory. The second war lasted for nearly ten years before the Russians finally won. And we're talking about a country of 150 million versus a country of less than two million.

112 posted on 10/04/2022 7:46:54 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: woodbutcher1963
"The Capitalists Will Sell Us the Rope with Which We Will Hang Them"...

Russia

China.

113 posted on 10/04/2022 7:47:13 AM PDT by RckyRaCoCo (Please Pray For My Brother Ken.)
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To: Dr. Franklin

I did mention Chechnya, but what are the other places “like” Chechnya that would try to break away militarily?


114 posted on 10/04/2022 7:49:32 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Wilderness Conservative

It saddens me to see this.

One of Trump’s great accomplishments was to question the foreign policy apparatus’ drives for war in Syria and war against Russia.


115 posted on 10/04/2022 8:01:07 AM PDT by oblomov
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To: dennisw
So many anti-globohomo Freepers

So you admit to being a pro-globohomo. That doesn't surprise me in the least.

116 posted on 10/04/2022 8:01:31 AM PDT by Robert DeLong
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To: Wilderness Conservative

117 posted on 10/04/2022 8:11:24 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: dennisw
Reality:

https://sonar21.com/premonitions-by-helmholtz-smith/

Weariness is visible – three recent American polls show a desire for diplomacy, “less concern” and that Ukraine doesn’t make the list. I’m reminded of a comment by Gonzalo Lira that Russia should just make the war boring to Americans.

The economic effects of the boomeranging sanctions are inexorably tightening in Europe. We’re now hearing about possible bank collapses and reading cheerful pieces on how to keep mold out of cold damp houses. With Nordstream out of contention. no improvement is visible. Time is on Russia’s side. At some point the European population will have had enough. Protests are growing. The overwhelming rejection in the German parliament of increased support for Ukraine points this way.

America is better off but is also feeling the boomerang. Inflation is rising and what will happen to gasoline prices (a huge concern) when they stop draining the Strategic Oil Reserve? And if China dumps a lot of US currency the situation will get worse.

WESTERN ARMS RUNNING OUT

The West is running out of arms to send Ukraine. A CNBC report speaks of America being out of 155mm guns and ammunition (manufacturers are being sought); it has already sent ten years’ production of Javelins! The latest HIMARS “sent” haven’t been built yet.

Similar stories from Europe. The available stock of ex-Soviet equipment is gone – 28 (“modernized” 20 years ago) T55 tanks scrounged from Slovenia are the latest “wonder weapon”.

The West does not have the industrial capacity to sustain modern war. Everything that has been sent to Ukraine so far has been from existing stocks. Western militaries must either start cannibalizing their standing armies or stop. Then what? Western weapons made the September offensive possible.

###

PREMONITIONS OF WHAT?

In short, the Western plan is not working. The sanctions cost the West more, it’s running out of weapons to send and there are signs of softening. If Moscow’s plan was to move slowly and wait them out, then it’s working.

One should not rule out the possibility of a negotiated settlement and it may be that NATO realizes in time that it has painted itself into a corner from which that is the only exit. But it’s hard to see, given all the hyperbole, how the West’s present rulers could admit to such an enormous failure. Electoral replacement, while happening, is too slow. And why would Moscow ever trust anything the West says? A unilateral surrender by Kiev is possible but the only way I could see it is if Zelensky were overthrown. Therefore I rate a negotiated ending as not impossible at the moment but of very low probability. But time is on Russia’s side and October’s improbability may be March’s desperate desire.

More likely to me is, to use a World War II analogy, that now that Kiev’s Operation Citadel in the Kursk Salient is petering out, it’s time for a really powerful mechanized offensive accompanied by strikes deep in the rear with no holding back. One must remember that Putin said they hadn’t really started – I think we’re about to see what he meant. And sooner, I would guess, rather than later. I can’t imagine that anyone in Moscow wants this thing still going on next February.

118 posted on 10/04/2022 8:18:53 AM PDT by Kazan
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

The Rus army won in Chechnya, only by leveling Grozny. This was their way of rooting out (killing off) the Chechen guerilla resistance. What brutal wars.

During the first war, when Rus armor and troops entered Grozny they were slaughtered classic guerrilla style. By trapping the Rus armored column in a street. Killing off the first and last armored vehicles to block any=all Rus exits. Then firing down RPGs and machine guns from the apartments above.

A real turkey shoot by the clever Chechens.


119 posted on 10/04/2022 8:23:07 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: TexasFreeper2009

>>India is the buffer to China

There are the Himalayas, the Hindu Kush, and Burma in the way.


120 posted on 10/04/2022 9:29:27 AM PDT by FarCenter
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