The Russians literally ran out of gas due to their crappy logistics. They were undermanned as well.
Posted on 09/06/2022 4:50:12 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
After six months of war in Ukraine, some observers have insisted that “we are seeing the very nature of combat change” and that tanks, along with fighter jets and warships, “are being pushed into obsolescence.”
But it is too soon to write off the tank, and we should resist jumping to other sweeping conclusions about the future of warfare based on a conflict whose lessons are not yet clear. There is still much about this war that is not known from open sources, and there is good reason to think that the conditions that marked its early phases will not necessarily be relevant to future conflicts. As a result, specific weapon systems may appear to be ineffective based on how and where they are employed, not necessarily due to their inherent shortcomings.
The available data from Ukraine, as well as the recent war in Nagorno-Karabakh, indicate that tanks are still critical in modern warfare and their vulnerabilities have been exaggerated. Russia’s heavy tank losses can be explained by employment mistakes, poor planning and preparation, insufficient infantry support, and Ukrainian artillery. The use of Javelins and other light anti-tank systems in Ukraine has not demonstrated that the tank is obsolete any more than the Sagger anti-tank guided missile did in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, as discussed by David Johnson in these pages.
Russian Missteps and Tank Losses
Russia’s initial operation prioritized speed and secrecy above all other factors. Because they expected little resistance, Russian forces made minimal attempts at executing a coherent combined-arms operation, which would have required careful coordination and planning between air, ground, and naval forces. Russian ground units simply drove toward cities, unprepared for a fight. In addition, Russian forces were given insufficient time to prepare for such a complex operation.
(Excerpt) Read more at warontherocks.com ...
Ukraine ping
Putin’s attempt at a coup de main spearheaded by tanks was always a big gamble, but its failure hasn’t invalidated the tank’s role in the essential scissors, paper, rock dynamic of all armed formations. If Ukraine’s military was as unprepared, unmotivated and/or suborned as it was when Russia overran Crimea in 2014, Putin’s February 24 dice roll might have worked.
Can people in WV be fooled again?
Would you want your son to serve on an aircraft carrier?
When pentagon brass sits inside a tank in a live war zone I’ll believe they are not obsolete. Until then they seem a bit like a very heavy mobile crematorium fueled by high velocity weapons fired at you from every weapons system ever imagined to kill tanks. No thanks.
During World War II, the Soviets lost as destroyed about 45,000 T-34 medium tanks ALONE. That number does not include the thousands of self propelled howitzers, tank destroyers, KV-1 heavy tanks and various light tanks like the T-26, and BT-5, and 7. The US lost about 4,300 Sherman tanks on the Western front. Despite this carnage, it is indisputable that the tank enabled the resumption and exploitation of mobile combined arms operations on the battlefield by all of the major combatants in Europe.
Yes the modern main battle tank is very vulnerable to modern anti tank munitions. But it fulfills a role that no other AFV can provide. It is a source for direct fire medium artillery and MG fire that can conduct semi independent mobile action or combined arms operations, and is capable of staying on station continually with other ground forces in the infantry support role, all with reasonably good armor protection against most of the threats directed against it.
Despite the Ukrainians success’s against Russian armor, one of their principle demands for weapons that they are demanding the West to supply them with is up to date armored fighting vehicles, including main battle tanks. They know how valuable they are, and can be.
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I have a feeling the tanks we will have to worry about are ones rolling down the main thoroughfare of your own home town here in America. You know, something just a little less austentacious than those F-15’s Joe promised.
I don’t think anything’s changed much since WW2.
Patton proved you need aggressive infantry patrolling in advance of tanks.
That’s a job few modern day grunts want to take on.
Tanks are a vital component of a combined arms offensive
Such an offensive integrates land and airborne troops, mechanized divisions, artillery, air power, naval assets and drones. The tanks need to support and be supported by the other military components
The Russians seem to be unable to integrate their various assets into a unified, coherent fighting force and are getting beat up as their unit are attacked and defeated in detail
I’m not going to discuss specific advantages publicly, but our troops and equipment are far better including tanks and aircraft carriers.
Can the Ukrainian forces retain 10% of those anti tank weapons should we need them back for ourselves? You know, 10% to fight off the big guy?
The tank is crucial to modern warfare — when you can get your mass of 60 ton behemoths to the battle on time, which is certainly not the case in Ukraine.
Patton proved just about everything in warfare and human nature of politicians. I don’t think we retained much of that material. Shame.
ping for later read
I still think Russia could have easily rolled a few hundred tanks and 50k troops through Kiev and been done with it. Russia’s army isn’t meant for limited, politically restrained combat operations.
That's the rub. No modern push button battles there. Pure hell for all.
The Russians literally ran out of gas due to their crappy logistics. They were undermanned as well.
His strategy has been bewildering considering the traditional Russian doctrine of mass artillery then a humungously overwhelming first wave of armor and infantry.
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