For all your globalist warmongering needs, turn to George Soros. (also sponsored by Pfizer)
Posted on 08/24/2022 6:44:29 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
Never heard of a selective car bomb before.
I have been noticing your frustration about a lack of answer on a question I did not know about. Now that I have seen it I will try to come up with some kind of sensible answer.
Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan all have things in common that Ukraine does not which have made them hard to deal with. They are all Muslim, but often with very competitive and often hostile forms of Islam that seem to be stuck where Europe and UK were in the 16th Century with Protestants fighting Catholics—fighting and back-stabbing. There are several tribal groups with their own leadership and often specifically hostile to one another. Think Pashtun and Hazzara. They were often hostile to Western influence and in country power. There is often a strong competition for who is going to be the leader in that country. There is often infiltration from outside groups and subgroups of Islam who are undermining and fighting a more domenent potential leader. A major goal of important leadership in those countries has been a lack of desire to be part of the West.
Ukraine does not have these issues. Religion does not seem to be much as even Jews are reasonably well accepted. The country seems to be mostly loyal to the current leadership. Their main enemy comes from a history of unspeakable murder and brutalty (Holdomodor sp?), with recent and feared bad behavior. Given their treatment by Russia, the majority of the population seems OK with a Western orientation, and glad for the help—civil and military. This is not a situation we are trying to fix with quantities of our own fighting men.
The points I have mentioned are not identical for each of the 4 Countries, but each has several of the issues I have pointed out.
Ok, that’s the most I’ve seen anyone even bother trying to answer.
The way I’m reading it is there may be reasons, or let’s suppose intentions, possibly good intentions behind the different scenarios. The question remains.
Have any of these countries, or any countries, benefited from these activities? Never mind intentions whatever they may or may not be. As a disclaimer, I do not believe, right out of the gate, that the US has demonstrated itself as deserving the right to assert moral authority. It faces many, many problems that are not 4,000 miles away.
“THE REALITY”
I promised you a response in messenger, but I have other obligations as well. I honor that you question & seek information. Maybe. a trifle long, but theser is only so much can be handled by a post! Hopefully, will picque your curiosity as well as expand viewpoint of notorious Putin.
In 1999, the Russian Federation invaded the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in the Northern Caucasus. Although Russian President Boris Yeltsin, who supported the autonomy of Soviet states, believed Chechen independence was an attack on Russia’s territorial sovereignty. After three years, Yeltsin ordered Russian forces to invade Chechnya on December 11, 1994. The Khasavyurt Accords were signed on August 31, 1996, ending the conflict. Gorbachev described the war in Chechnya as a “disgraceful, bloody adventure.”
The Second Chechen War Putin justified Russian airstrikes as protective measures against Islamic militants. Even with Chechen civilians being killed, he would not negotiate a peace treaty until “Russia decided it would be useful.”
Even now, Putin still uses the Second Chechen War to define and defend his foreign policy decisions. Which makes PUTIN’S first invasion to dictate his UKRAINE INVASION.
EXAMPLE: Putin sent in “the little green men” [masked soldiers of the Russian Federation or in unmarked green army uniforms] they had modern Russian military weapons and equipment during the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014. They were given a cash stipend to sign up for this action.
When Putin was asked if these were Russian military, he didn’t know ANYTHING about it. He responded ‘Maybe, some soldiers are on vacation.”
When these conscripts discovered what their assignment REALLY was, they attempted to return to Russia but were shot by border guards. Parents no longer had contact with their sons & protested in Red Square. Reporters tried to investigate their found military graves and were beaten.
To further move forward with Putin invasion of Ukraine, we need to understand PUTIN the THUG.
WHO: Putin served in KGB. KGB responsibilities were: protection of the political leadership, the supervision of border troops, and the general surveillance of the people to “combat “ideological subversion.” [excuse the FSK > FSB]
RUSSIAN KGB COUP: DIRECTED BY Chairman of the KGB Vladimir Kryuchkov, along with seven other Soviet leaders, on 18 August 1991 formed the State Committee on the State of Emergency to attempt to overthrow the government of the Soviet Union.
*The purpose of the attempted coup d’état was to preserve the integrity of the Soviet Union and the constitutional order. FAILED.
THEN: Russia shifted its ‘occupation policy’ towards the Donbas to “Abkhazian.” In 2017, Russia didn’t follow the Minsk accords by shifting policy with intention to recognize its puppet “republics” using tactics in both Crimea and Donbas to create quasi-states. PUTIN TO RULE UKRAINE!
-Putin signed a decree for recognition of “passports” issued by the so-called DNR and LNR and other documents issued by in Russia.
-Luhansk [LPR] adopted the Russian ruble as its basic monetary unit on 1 March 2017.
-Ukrainian assets in the occupied territories were stolen by occupation forces in late 2014 and 2015.
-Putin’s used pattern of “Transnistrian” policy that controls zones of ‘frozen conflicts’ in Moldova (Transnistria region), Georgia (Abkhazia and South Ossetia), and in Ukraine annexed Crimean peninsula and the Donbas. [the wider pattern using separatist conflicts to create corruption and criminality as ‘Trojan horses’ to block progress in reform-minded periphery countries.]
- PUTIN tactics are part of a geopolitical strategy creating conflict zones to prevent countries from entering NATO and integrating into the European Union. Conflicts in post-Soviet countries are inflicted, fueled and kept frozen by Russia as part of PUTIN’S imperialistic plan to regain strategic points of HIS ‘lost empire.’
-The Minsk-2 deal as a second attempt to force Ukraine to accept PUTIN’s “Transnistria” for the Donbas, a “peace enforcement” to push both occupied regions BACK into Ukraine as Russian-run enclaves to expand Russia’s control over the internal and external affairs of Ukraine.
- Granting ‘restoration control’ to the Ukrainian government and pulling out “all foreign armed formations, military equipment, mercenaries” from the territory of Ukraine were BASICALLY IMPRACTICAL for Putin.
If Russia withdraws its troops from any occupied territory, these territories would disappear to later become a Russian “geopolitical project”. Dmitry Peskov of course denied Russia was preparing to annex territories in Donetsk and Luhansk.
CURRENT 2022: On 24 February 2022, PUTIN launched an more visible SECOND military invasion of Ukraine.
RUSSIAN PEOPLE were shocked! ANTI-UKRAINE INVASION protests broke out [and continue] in Moscow, St. Petersburg & throughout over PUTIN Invasion of Ukraine. Cracks in the Kremblin now are appearing larger against Putin, families of military are actively protesting as an well as anti-Putin resistance group Russian Nationalist Army has been activated.
I’m sorry. Taking all of that at face value I have no idea how US intervention won’t make matters worse.
“This entire situation stems from failure to adhere to the terms of Minsk. Ukraine, France, Germany, signed the agreement and it was ratified as a UN Resolution. Here it is. US State dept. pretends it doesn’t exist.”
No they don’t. And neither does Ukraine. Come to think of it, even the DPR calls bullshit on that front. Read their own report, sent to Moscow AND the United Nations, here: https://eng.ombudsman-dnr.ru/annual-reports/. If it’s too long to digest, I can give you the MULTIPLE reports and MULTIPLE page numbers that contradict the Kremlin narrative.
Minsk II WAS being implemented by Zelenskyy. The Donbass authorities even confirmed that the ceasefires on the Ukraine side, and the armistices, had resulted in an exponential drop in civilian casualties since his election. Their reports EXPLICITLY say, Minsk 2 was being implemented. It was Russia, in February 2022, that decided not to bother.
The failures of Minsk 1 are a different matter but there the blame lies both with Poroshenko refusing to compromise and France/Germany basically offering a toxic deal to Ukraine purely for the quiet life.
Holding Z responsible for the failures of his predecessor is as disingenuous as holding Trump responsible for Obama’s executive orders. It’s just obvious propaganda from the Russkies, and I really can’t believe how anyone who remotely thinks of themselves as “smart” could fall for something so contrived and dumb.
But Z does have a point, there won’t be a Minsk 3, 4, or 5 because every time Russia and the West negotiate a Minsk deal, Ukraine gives and Russia takes - there’s literally no benefit in signing such an agreement especially when Russia’s response to good faith by Ukraine was a frickin’ invasion.
“Ukraine for eight years was built up as a US/NATO launching pad for weapons aimed at Russia.”
1. Name one weapon, inside Ukraine, that was pointed at Russia. Just one. Go on. Bet ya can’t.
2. Putin and his pundits on Rossiya 1 didn’t give a hoot about biolabs until after the dumbass Trumpian lunatics wouldn’t shut up about them, and in doing so handed him a causus belli on a platter.
You know WHY Russia didn’t care until after Trump left office? Russia’s own on-territory biolabs have had more leaks than Thames Water - for decades. Whole Russian towns have been hit by accidental releases. Russia’s security and risk appetite was not harmed in any way by western safeguards being enforced in Ukraine’s biolabs - so they were never going to make a huge song and dance about those labs as long as the USA maintained its PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. All ya had to do was stick to the frickin’ script, and biolabs wouldn’t even be a talking point in Russia.
“US backed forces have been shelling Donbass the entire time.”
The Donbass separatists were funded by Russia, and half the fighters in it were proper Russians “on holiday”. Like our old friend Strelkov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin. If you think that using Ukraine as a proxy is a bad thing, consider Girkin was GRU/FSB who was active in Transnistria, Bosnia, and Chechnya BEFORE he went to eastern Ukraine... the year BEFORE becoming a commander of the Donbas rebels in 2014.
So Russia’s the last country on the planet that can claim the moral high ground. At least the USA’s proxies in Ukraine were serving American interests AND Ukraine’s interests AND complying with the terms of the Budapest Memorandum all at Ukraine’s invitation - Russia’s proxies were not invited by anybody, were simply sent in by Russia, their mission was to destabilize the country, they were VIOLATING the Budapest Memorandum... and the words of Strelkov himself confirm all this.
“Just because things are not spoon fed by Fox and Friends does not absolve anyone from ignorance.”
Goes both ways. Bullshit is repeated ad infinitem by Russian bots and troll farms and gullible idiots run with it purely because they think it’s more important to score points on the Hunter Biden issue than get the facts right.
That is one interpretation, that you wrap up with the suggestion that I am a Russian bot. It is still a free country and I have every right to assert my opinion and feel obligated to shout down these ideas that simply don’t make any sense. And I will. You are forming your opinions on western news, a very dubious source.
It isn’t fun doing it but we’ve lost control of this govt. that is now stewing in a putrid bath of ignominy. We all have our share of responsibility. It cannot even perform rudimentary functions such as elections. It teeters on failed state territory.
It is just my opinion of course, that the biggest deficit we run here, and there are many, is that of genuine national and personal humility. It will be the most difficult to overcome.
Coming to possess genuine humility is a lesson MUCH easier to LEARN than be taught, and we are all about to be taught a lesson we will not forget. It may kill many of us.
For all your globalist warmongering needs, turn to George Soros. (also sponsored by Pfizer)
*MAGA First/Anti-War/Anti-Globalist Ping*
If you want on or off this list, please let me know.
“George Soros. (also sponsored by Pfizer)”
You appear to hero-worship Soros. No one else does.
You appear to hero-worship Soros. You and all of your fellow warmongering Sorosbot Stalinazi trolls praying to Satan for World War 3, Jezebel.
“Let it be known”
I did promised you a response in FR mail. I will double post to help you receive info. Please understand Freepers are under no obligation to fulfill personal demands. I’m sure you realize many of us have other committed responsibilities and obligations as well. Going to Free Republic is a unique pleasurable personal activity.
I do honor the fact that you question & seek information. And, there certainly are many aspects to process! This maybe a trifle long, but there is only so much that can be handled by a post so I highlight info.
Hopefully, will pique your curiosity as well as expand knowledge of the notorious Putin thug.
UNDERSTANDING THE “TRANSNISTRIAN POLICY” OF PUTIN IS ESSENTIAL
In 1999, the Russian Federation invaded the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in the Northern Caucasus. Although Russian President Boris Yeltsin, who supported the autonomy of Soviet states, believed Chechen independence was an attack on Russia’s territorial sovereignty. After three years, Yeltsin ordered Russian forces to invade Chechnya on December 11, 1994. The Khasavyurt Accords were signed on August 31, 1996, ending the conflict. Gorbachev described the war in Chechnya as a “disgraceful, bloody adventure.”
NOT PUTIN- The Second Chechen War Putin justified Russian airstrikes as protective measures against Islamic militants. Even with Chechen civilians being killed, he would not negotiate a peace treaty until “Russia decided it would be useful.”
EVEN NOW, Putin still uses the Second Chechen War to define and defend his foreign policy decisions. Which makes PUTIN’S first invasion to dictate his UKRAINE INVASION.
EXAMPLE: Putin sent in “the little green men” [masked soldiers of the Russian Federation or in unmarked green army uniforms] they had modern Russian military weapons and equipment during the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014. They were given a cash stipend to sign up for this action.
When Putin was asked if these were Russian military, he didn’t know ANYTHING about it. He responded ‘Maybe, some soldiers are on vacation!”
When these conscripts discovered what their assignment REALLY was, they attempted to return to Russia but were shot by border guards. Parents no longer had contact with their sons & protested in Red Square. Reporters tried to investigate their found military graves and were beaten.
To further move forward with Putin invasion of Ukraine, we need to RETURN BACK to understand PUTIN the THUG.
WHO: Putin served in KGB. KGB responsibilities were: protection of the political leadership, the supervision of border troops, and the general surveillance of the people to “combat “ideological subversion.” [excuse the FSK > FSB]
RUSSIAN KGB COUP: DIRECTED BY Chairman of the KGB Vladimir Kryuchkov, along with seven other Soviet leaders, on 18 August 1991 formed the State Committee on the State of Emergency to attempt to overthrow the government of the Soviet Union.
*The purpose of the attempted coup d’état was to preserve the integrity of the Soviet Union and the constitutional order. FAILED.
THEN: Russia shifted its ‘occupation policy’ towards the Donbas to “Abkhazian.” In 2017, Russia didn’t follow the Minsk accords by shifting policy with intention to recognize its puppet “republics” using tactics in both Crimea and Donbas to create quasi-states. PUTIN TO RULE UKRAINE!
-Putin signed a decree for recognition of “passports” issued by the so-called DNR and LNR and other documents issued by in Russia.
-Luhansk [LPR] adopted the Russian ruble as its basic monetary unit on 1 March 2017.
-Ukrainian assets in the occupied territories were stolen by occupation forces in late 2014 and 2015.
-Putin’s used pattern of “Transnistrian” policy that controls zones of ‘frozen conflicts’ in Moldova (Transnistria region), Georgia (Abkhazia and South Ossetia), and in Ukraine annexed Crimean peninsula and the Donbas. [the wider pattern using separatist conflicts to create corruption and criminality as ‘Trojan horses’ to block progress in reform-minded periphery countries.]
- PUTIN tactics are part of a geopolitical strategy creating conflict zones to prevent countries from entering NATO and integrating into the European Union. Conflicts in post-Soviet countries are inflicted, fueled and kept frozen by Russia as part of PUTIN’S imperialistic plan to regain strategic points of HIS ‘lost empire.’
-The Minsk-2 deal as a second attempt to force Ukraine to accept PUTIN’s “Transnistria” for the Donbas, a “peace enforcement” to push both occupied regions BACK into Ukraine as Russian-run enclaves to expand Russia’s control over the internal and external affairs of Ukraine.
- Granting ‘restoration control’ to the Ukrainian government and pulling out “all foreign armed formations, military equipment, mercenaries” from the territory of Ukraine were BASICALLY IMPRACTICAL for Putin.
If Russia withdraws its troops from any occupied territory, these territories would disappear to later become a Russian “geopolitical project”. Dmitry Peskov of course denied Russia was preparing to annex territories in Donetsk and Luhansk.
CURRENT 2022: On 24 February 2022, PUTIN launched an more visible SECOND military invasion of Ukraine.
RUSSIAN PEOPLE were shocked! ANTI-UKRAINE INVASION protests broke out [and continue] in Moscow, St. Petersburg & throughout over PUTIN Invasion of Ukraine.
Now, cracks in the Kremblin are appearing larger against Putin. Families of military are actively protesting as an well as anti-Putin resistance group Russian Nationalist Army has been activated.
WILL ALL OF RUSSIA federation BE ABLE TO STOP PUTIN?
Who knows.
However, the world does not have to accept
‘world domination’ by the little Emperor
“PUTIN the THUG!”
Ok I read all of that, thank you. We’re never going to agree on this.
Coming to possess genuine humility is a lesson MUCH easier to LEARN than be taught, and we are all about to be taught a lesson we will not forget. It may kill many of us.
________________________________
Neither Afghanistan nor Vietnam taught the US a damned thing, though they should have.
This time the real enemy is obviously domestic. It was before, but times were good enough that no one pushed the matter, even those who clearly saw it for what it was.
This time, the entire West is captured by arguably the most evil group to have ever infected this planet and the plans they have for everyone aren’t hidden or arcane. They have charts and organizational spreadsheets complete with maps posted openly on the internet. They have told us to our faces what they intend. They have done so for decades as they refine their goals and methods.
They tried to buy Putin and he took a taste and refused. Now, he, like Trump and like Bolsonaro (whose back story I don’t know) are in their crosshairs. None of these declared enemies of THEIR so-called democracy (mob rule) are shutting up or backing down.
If Russia loses, we are in the deepest of deep excrement. They have published the receipts. They are taking it to the Security Council and they are starting the tribunals with the Asovs, having promised the same to our political rulers.
The Cabal is powerful in some ways, but they cannot triumph without riling the masses to do their kinetic dirty work. As much as they are trying to humiliate Trump and Putin, one can only imagine what they have in store for the populations of either of our countries.
I agree with your post, but I wonder if the current populace is even capable of being taught. There exists such a deep inculcated arrogance that most will die screaming allegiance to the Current Thing.
Whoever takes on Goliath, and knocks him cold, is going to be very popular on the world stage.
The link between the population and the govt. is inseverable. We lost control of this thing.
Whoever takes on Goliath, and knocks him cold, is going to be very popular on the world stage.
The link between the population and the govt. is inseverable. We lost control of this thing.
______________________________
I agree about Goliath. But if his vocal chords (the state medias of the West)remain, no one will even know. As they do with Trump, it will be iteration after iteration of TDS/PDS/RDS.
As you said earlier: they are about to be taught. But they will not necessarily learn.
Not sure I understand your meaning about government & population. Do you mean that if Putin takes out the WEF et al, he will make no distinction between the people and the government? I don’t get that from his speeches. Or is it that we will suffer the fate of our *government*, because....?
The WEFfers already make no distinction. The contempt they have for their poodles carries over to contempt for we who were gaslighted into either voting for them or shutting up when they were installed regardless of our wishes. Or agitating in their behalf, depending.
We are occupied. I have no link to this so-called government. They are illegitimate. They stole our country. So, yes: we lost control. I’m sure the entire world sees that, except those suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
I have some suspicions that this entire operation to unseat the WEFfers was planned way in advance. Contingency plans were made. There has been enough time for many different contingencies, even given the twists and turns history always takes.
I hope humanity survives. It isn’t even just about winning or about retribution any more, although we all want both.
I know many strong people who have nearly reached their personal precipice. The divisions wrought everywhere these past 2&1/2 years grow daily. We are not even a people, per se, at this point. No one seems to see a clear way forward, including myself.
It has become Groundhog Day in hell.
What I mean when I say the link between the population/govt; being inseverable is that we, I, you, them, they, have a responsibility to keep it in check and it’s not in check. It is way out of check. I’m stumped as to what to do about it and I think about it a lot.
I am not a student of religion but all I can think of doing is the “do unto others” thing, whatever that entails, and hope it catches on. That’s it. I don’t know what else to do so that’s what we’re doing.
1/5 SECOND LOOK: "Azov batallion ID" presented by FSB, as basic online forensic tools see it. Forensically reveals the quality time the photoshop artist spent with clone tool, due to some darn fine pattern. #dugina #UkraineWar #FSB #fake"
(He's being sarcastic on the FSB quality control here)
https://twitter.com/IssandJumal/status/1561781520343482373
4/5 Fake it till you make it. Forget those fine tricks for cutting someone's face from background. Good ol' eraser tool with soft edges is faithful like a tractor.
If the ID is legit, why did the FSB have to fake it and edit it so badly?
They just took some ID from a archive from occupied Ukraine, did some cheap editing, and put it out as the perpetrator's and a politically expedient cover story.
The question is, why bother?
-The Minsk-2 deal as a second attempt to force Ukraine to accept PUTIN’s “Transnistria” for the Donbas, a “peace enforcement” to push both occupied regions BACK into Ukraine as Russian-run enclaves to expand Russia’s control over the internal and external affairs of Ukraine.
With all due respect, this is simply not accurate. Minsk I and II were signed international agreements entered into by Ukraine, not attempts. Minsk I was drawn up by the Trilateral Contact Group consisting of representatives of Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe). It largely followed the prior plan of Petro Poroshenko. It was signed by (Signed) L. D. Kuchma, Second President of Ukraine. Minsk II was also signed by L.D. Kuchma, amd was a "Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements." Also a signatory of Minsk II was Heidi Tagliavini, a Swiss diplomat.
Annex II was "Declaration of the President of the Russian Federation, the President of Ukraine, the President of the French Republic and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany in support of the “Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements”, adopted on 12 February 2015 in Minsk."
Ukraine was a member of the Tri-partite commission who drafted the documents, they signed the formal documents, and France and Germany joined in support of Minsk II.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
Minsk agreementsA map of the buffer zone established by the Minsk Protocol follow-up memorandum
The Minsk agreements were a series of international agreements which sought to end the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine. The first, known as the Minsk Protocol, was drafted in 2014 by the Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine, consisting of Ukraine, Russia, and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), with mediation by the leaders of France and Germany in the so-called Normandy Format. After extensive talks in Minsk, Belarus, the agreement was signed on 5 September 2014 by representatives of the Trilateral Contact Group and, without recognition of their status, by the then-leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People's Republic (LPR). This agreement followed multiple previous attempts to stop the fighting in the region and aimed to implement an immediate ceasefire.
The agreement failed to stop fighting, and was thus followed with a revised and updated agreement, Minsk II, which was signed on 12 February 2015. This agreement consisted of a package of measures, including a ceasefire, withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front line, release of prisoners of war, constitutional reform in Ukraine granting self-government to certain areas of Donbas and restoring control of the state border to the Ukrainian government. While fighting subsided following the agreement's signing, it never ended completely, and the agreement's provisions were never fully implemented. The Normandy Format parties agreed that the Minsk II remains the basis for any future resolution to the conflict.
Amid rising tensions between Russia and Ukraine in early 2022, Russia officially recognised the Luhansk and Donetsk people's republics on 21 February 2022. Following that decision, on 22 February 2022, Russian president Vladimir Putin declared that the Minsk agreements "no longer existed", and that Ukraine, not Russia, was to blame for their collapse. Russia then invaded Ukraine on 24 February 2022.
Minsk Protocol
The Minsk Protocol was drawn up by the Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine, which consisted of representatives from Ukraine, Russia, and the OSCE. The group was established in June 2014 as a way to facilitate dialogue and resolution of the strife across eastern and southern Ukraine. Meetings of the group, along with informal representatives of the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, took place on 31 July, 26 August, 1 September, and 5 September 2014. The details of the agreement, signed on 5 September 2014, largely resembled Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko's 20 June "fifteen-point peace plan".
https://comw.org/pda/fulltext/UNSC-Res-2202-Minsk.pdf
The Minsk Agreement of 12 February 2015 (MINSK II) followed the Minsk Protocol of 5 September 2014 (MINSK I)
MINSK II AGREEMENT, 12 February 2015 (as endorsed at UN Security Council, 17 Feb 2015)
ANNEX IPackage of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements
Minsk, 12 February 2015
1. Immediate and comprehensive ceasefire in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine and its strict implementation as of 15 February 2015, 12 a.m. local time.
2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides by equal distances in order to create a security zone of at least 50 km wide from each other for the artillery systems of calibre of 100 and more, a security zone of 70 km wide for MLRS and 140 km wide for MLRS “Tornado-S”, Uragan, Smerch and Tactical Missile Systems (Tochka, Tochka U):
— for the Ukrainian troops: from the de facto line of contact;
— for the armed formations from certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine : from the line of contact according to the Minsk Memorandum of Sept. 19th, 2014;
The withdrawal of the heavy weapons as specified above is to start on day 2 of the ceasefire at the latest and be completed within 14 days.
The process shall be facilitated by the OSCE and supported by the Trilateral Contact Group.
3. Ensure effective monitoring and verification of the ceasefire regime and the withdrawal of heavy weapons by the OSCE from day 1 of the withdrawal, using all technical equipment necessary, including satellites, drones, radar equipment, etc.
4. Launch a dialogue, on day 1 of the withdrawal, on modalities of local elections in accordance with Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine “On interim local self-government order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions” as well as on the future regime of these areas based on this law.
Adopt promptly, by no later than 30 days after the date of signing of this document a Resolution of the Parliament of Ukraine specifying the area enjoying a special regime, under the Law of Ukraine “On interim self-government order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions”, based on the line of the Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014.
5. Ensure pardon and amnesty by enacting the law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine.
6. Ensure release and exchange of all hostages and unlawfully detained persons, based on the principle “all for all”. This process is to be finished on the day 5 after the withdrawal at the latest.
7. Ensure safe access, delivery, storage, and distribution of humanitarian assistance to those in need, on the basis of an international mechanism.
8. Definition of modalities of full resumption of socioeconomic ties, including social transfers such as pension payments and other payments (incomes and revenues, timely payments of all utility bills, reinstating taxation within the legal framework of Ukraine).
To this end, Ukraine shall reinstate control of the segment of its banking system in the conflict-affected areas and possibly an international mechanism to facilitate such transfers shall be established.
9. Reinstatement of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine throughout the conflict area, starting on day 1 after the local elections and ending after the comprehensive political settlement (local elections in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions on the basis of the Law of Ukraine and constitutional reform) to be finalized by the end of 2015, provided that paragraph 11 has been implemented in consultation with and upon agreement by representatives of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under monitoring of the OSCE. Disarmament of all illegal groups.
11. Carrying out constitutional reform in Ukraine with a new constitution entering into force by the end of 2015 providing for decentralization as a key element (including a reference to the specificities of certain areas in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, agreed with the representatives of these areas), as well as adopting permanent legislation on the special status of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in line with measures as set out in the footnote until the end of 2015. [Note]
12. Based on the Law of Ukraine “On interim local self-government order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions”, questions related to local elections will be discussed and agreed upon with representatives of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group. Elections will be held in accordance with relevant OSCE standards and monitored by OSCE/ODIHR.
13. Intensify the work of the Trilateral Contact Group including through the establishment of working groups on the implementation of relevant aspects of the Minsk agreements. They will reflect the composition of the Trilateral Contact Group.
Note
Such measures are, according to the Law on the special order for local self government in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions:
— Exemption from punishment, prosecution and discrimination for persons involved in the events that have taken place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— Right to linguistic self-determination;
— Participation of organs of local self-government in the appointment of heads of public prosecution offices and courts in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— Possibility for central governmental authorities to initiate agreements with organs of local self-government regarding the economic, social and cultural development of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— State supports the social and economic development of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— Support by central government authorities of cross-border cooperation in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions with districts of the Russian Federation;
— Creation of the people's police units by decision of local councils for the maintenance of public order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— The powers of deputies of local councils and officials, elected at early elections, appointed by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by this law, cannot be early terminated.
Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:
Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini
Second President of Ukraine, L. D. Kuchma
Ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine, M. Yu. Zurabov
A.W. Zakharchenko
I.W. Plotnitski
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ANNEX IIDeclaration of the President of the Russian Federation, the President of Ukraine, the President of the French Republic and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany in support of the “Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements”, adopted on 12 February 2015 in Minsk
The President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin, the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, the President of the French Republic, François Hollande, and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, Dr. Angela Merkel, reaffirm their full respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. They firmly believe that there is no alternative to an exclusively peaceful settlement. They are fully committed to undertake all possible individual and joint measures to this end.
Against this background, leaders endorse the Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements adopted and signed on February 12, 2015 by all signatories who also signed Minsk Protocol of September 5, 2014 and Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014. Leaders will contribute to this process and will use their influence on relevant parties to facilitate the implementation of that Package of Measures.
Germany and France will provide technical expertise for the restoration of the segment of the banking system in the conflict affected areas, possibly through the establishment of an international mechanism to facilitate social transfers.
Leaders share the conviction that improved cooperation between the EU, Ukraine and Russia will be conducive to the crisis settlement. To this end, they endorse the continuation of trilateral talks between the EU, Ukraine and Russia on energy issues in order to achieve follow-up stages to the gas winter package.
They also support trilateral talks between the EU, Ukraine and Russia in order to achieve practical solutions to concerns raised by Russia with regards to the implementation of the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement between Ukraine and the EU.
Leaders remain committed to the vision of a joint humanitarian and economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific based upon full respect for international law and the OSCE principles.
Leaders will remain committed to the implementation of the Minsk Agreements. To this end, they agree to establish an oversight mechanism in the Normandy format which will convene at regular intervals, in principle on the level of senior officials from the foreign ministries.
I wasn’t suggesting you’re a Russian bot. I haven’t seen enough from you to think that. I was referring to accounts on FR that are hitting the same notes on a topic with the exact same copy and paste slogans/memes every time they’re active - like they’re on a schedule and spinning a prayer wheel. There are other people who don’t respond to other FRs’ questions or suggestions, and simply invent a different question to answer. That doesn’t come across as a particularly human interaction - if they are real people, then they’re contributing absolutely nothing even to their own side of the argument.
I entirely get what you’re saying about governments and forked tongues. Boris was in Ukraine yesterday effectively telling us Brits that paying treble or more for heating and fuel is a fair price, given that the Ukrainian people are paying in blood.
That’s all very well for some - rich folks, and people investing in domestic renewables, escape the hit. Another 3 months of this, we’ll have mass unemployment AND we’ll have families unable to afford the winter heating. So, if there was a magic solution that would allow us to ensure Ukraine had a convincing, decisive victory over Russia WITHOUT the western world all going bust as a consequence, I’d take it in a heartbeat.
Instead we’ve got an either/or existential question. And the conservative right in America has picked the either, while the European right (especially in eastern Europe) is leaning towards the “or”. The “just let Russia win so we can all have a quiet life” mentality is what drove France and Germany to promote Minsk 1, we know it failed, and Baltics + Poland have no appetite for that.
What the USA isolationists fail to ever add to the equation is, Europe’s been in this position twice before - in the runup to World War 1, and throughout the 1930s. America is always the johnny-come-lately, so you tend to sit it out until the war hits American soil.
WE don’t have that luxury in Europe. We know, from bitter experience, thinking WE can just stand by and do nothing and stop a world war that way DOES NOT WORK.
Hitler and Stalin were carving up Europe on maps before either of them actually hit Poland. Our politicians in the 30s naively thought that simply by not poking either of those bears they were on a pathway to long term peace in their time. Instead, we got World War 2.
Putin and his regime have been carving up the ex-Soviet SSRs for the last twenty years. Chechnya, Georgia, Transnistria, Ukraine. Same playbooks over and over. They don’t even try to deny there’s method in the madness.
Their TV station yesterday talked about how long it’ll take AFTER they take Ukraine, to turn the Ukes back into a compliant little brother, and then together with the Chechens who’ve already been converted to the Russian Fascist religion march on Berlin.
Either that’s just the driest sense of humor on a public, government-sanctioned “current affairs” program, or it’s a reflection of where their head’s at. Some countries have the luxury of just dismissing that as them trolling the west; I’m telling you right now that no country east of Germany can afford to take that line.
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