Posted on 06/27/2022 12:08:01 PM PDT by Mariner
Russia fired a series of rockets at a shopping center in Kremenchuk, Ukraine, on Monday, raising alarm bells that Russia is stepping up its attacks on civilian structures regardless of the loss of life.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Monday there were more than a thousand civilians inside the shopping mall and the casualties to come might bring even more shock and horror to Ukrainian people already confronting so much death and destruction as Russia has been waging war in Ukraine for 124 days.
“The number of victims is impossible to imagine,” Zelensky said on Telegram. “The mall is on fire, rescuers are fighting the fire.”
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
This is not the first rocket attack in Kremenchuk. Which is a Bridgehead for the Mikolaiev front.
Depends.
The Palestinian case is not a good parallel as arguably they have no country of their own. But let’s say you mean West Bank. The mall folks are probably sympathetic to the Palestinians. So if they are defending the West Bank, yeah I could see an argument for this, and Israelis attacking the mall for no other reason would not be kosher.
Now are they using the mall to hide rockets that are being launched into Jerusalem? In that case they are a legitimate target.
As applied to Ukraine, the Russians are the invaders. The rockets in the mall weren’t attacking Russia. they are defending home turf. is there a risk the Russians would then target the mall? Sure, but there is already no legitimacy for the invading force.
they’re the exception..
Wait wait wait...
Are you saying DON’T believe that you’re on the same side as Soros, Biden, and The Media regarding Ukraine?
One of us is certainly stupid
I think Biden and Soros are just protecting their money laundering operations in Ukraine.
But Mariner doesn’t believe he is on the same side as Biden and Soros, regarding his support for Ukraine.
I get that many think this way, and I don’t necessarily disagree as to certain politicians motives. However, I try to also see a more historical bigger picture, how weakness in the face of tyranny and aggression invite more of the same. This is the Putin mindset.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Putin has invaded Dagestan, Chechnya, Georgia, and Ukraine, in some cases 2 or even 3 times. He has pledged to restore the motherland and has sights on Eastern Europe where countries who were held against their will by Stalin specifically joined NATO so that that could never happen again.
We pledged to defend Ukraine when we asked them to give up their nukes back in the 90’s. Russia agreed to this and they have been shown to be both unreliable and a threat ever since. To sit back and allow Russia to take over one country is just further invitation to watch more of the same.
That doesn’t mean we need boots on the ground.
There are a lot of people on this forum I respect (and Mariner is one of them) who I find that I am in polar disagreement with on this.
I don’t find it in myself to condemn them, because I sometimes feel that if I am conflicted enough by this, then others may be for their own reasons as well, and not coming down on the same side I am on.
I feel that I have been obligated to work this out alone, and follow my heart on this path, as unpopular as it may be for some people.
But I am not here for popularity...I am hear to learn, and to figure out how to navigate a seemingly increasingly insane and unstable world.
But for me, the bottom line is, I cannot find common cause with the American Left, George Soros, and the Biden Administration on this. I just can’t.
And it isn’t because I haven’t asked myself on a nearly daily basis “Am I wrong on this, and they right?” because I do.
It is because my mind tells me this, and my heart is in agreement. I often wonder how many there are out there who struggle with this as I do.
What a pos Putin is.
You should go to hell and you will for that kind of evil attitude.
Oh screw Mariner. I don’t care if Ukraine had a nuclear ICBM in their shopping mall it would be none of Putin’s business if he’d stop invading and slaughtering their country.
I hope that psycopathic pig Putin did a slow vicious death for his murders.
And this idiot is telling you the mall had weapons hidden in it? Screw that kind of lazy evil reasoning.
Russia got it’s but kicked on the West. Ukraine won’t surrender. It’s time for both sides to come to the table.
Well, I certainly agree on the revulsion for Putin and his ilk.
But I am not there in Ukraine-I do not know what is or is not in that mall.
But I do know from history of warfare, especially in an information age, that positioning instruments of war in areas populated by civilians is not unheard of.
And that there are governments to whom civilian casualties are valuable (more valuable as dead “innocents” than live war refugees) in an information war.
I am not saying that is the case. I am simply saying that I am not there, I don’t know, and one is as plausible as the other.
“One of us is certainly stupid”
Ask anyone if I am on the side of Ukraine, or support them in any way.
I don’t.
I don’t even think they’re a real country.
“You should go to hell and you will for that kind of evil attitude.”
So sayeth Alexander Vindman.
Thing is, he doesn’t get a vote.
You can go much deeper. The US triggered a coup, using very extreme elements of Ukraine politics (moderates don't go out and burn government buildings) and THEN installed the supposed "pro-western" government they wanted. Remember Victoria Nuland "yats is our guy?"
The Maidan "protests" started December 1, 2013, and two weeks later, John McCain, Chris Murphy and Victoria Nuland appeared on stage at Maidan with the organizers of the protests - Oleh Tyannbok, Andriy Parubly and Dmitro Yarosh, head of a paramilitary group called "the Right Sector" which was an umbrella organization for various groups claiming to be nazis, nationalists and Banderists. After the 2014 coup, the Right Sector disbanded - and formed the various Azov Brigades. The Right Sectors fighters were the ones who occupied and burned Kiev government buildings, and battled against the police during the protests. Its still unknown who were the snipers who shot at people gathered in the square, but given the Right Sector was in control of central Kiev at the time, its hard to imagine anyone else being able to run an operation there.
Yarosh later ran for President of Ukraine and got a whole 0.7% of the vote - so is hardly a popular figure.
When Russia calls Ukraine a neo-nazi government, controlled by NATO, they are not far off the mark
It’s what they do, because it’s a two-fer.
Store ordnance and other war mataeriel inside a civilian area, you win either way.
1. The Russians don’t fire, because the war material is stored inside a civilian area. WIN! War materiel moves to next location.
2. The Russians fire at the war materiel, and hit civilians as collateral damage, Propaganda WIN!
Baloney. Give it a week or two. My bet is the Uke Nazis and / or the US CIA did the hit.
The burning center turned out to be the Amstor shop located meters away from the workshop of the Kremenchug Kredmash Road Machinery Plant. Since 2014, the plant has been used for repairing military equipment for the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the Anti-Terrorist Operation against the population of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics.
The Kredmash Road Machinery Plant was likely hit by several missiles and the blast wave set the shopping center nearby on fire.
Don’t waste your time. Stupid and gullible are strong on this board. Very disappointed with many conservatives being fooled again by the media.
You may very well be correct.
What irks me is the bloodthirsty glee I see from so many over the deaths of Ukrainians as a result of Russian invaders (because regardless of what you think of Zelensky, that is what they are), basically calling all Ukrainians nazis who deserve to die.
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