Kaliningrad, Russia’s Westernmost Outpost, Is Again a Flash Point in East-West Relations

NY Times ^ | June 22, 2022 | Dan Bilefsky

[McGruff]

A former American national security adviser once called Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave sandwiched between the NATO members Poland and Lithuania, “a dagger in the heart of Europe.”

The latest flare-up with Lithuania is not the first time Kaliningrad has been the locus of tensions.

In 2016, about 70 nautical miles off Kaliningrad, two Russian Su-24 planes buzzed the American guided missile destroyer Donald Cook, simulating an attack and drawing protests from Washington.

In another episode that same month, a Russian warplane intercepted an American reconnaissance plane at an unsafe distance over the Baltic Sea.

[McGruff]

A little background information.

[struggle]

NATO is going to drag us into war whether we like it or not.

[baclava]

I don’t have a subscription. Who reads this crap and pays for it?

[kiryandil]

https://archive.ph/bqHVC

[kiryandil]

Not us.

We just read the archived version, to stiff The Walter Duranty Times. :)

[Travis McGee]

In 1980, while in the active duty Navy, on orders, I took a train from West Germany through East Germany to West Berlin with my small unit.

Even at the height of the Cold War, with armies and navies facing off on a hair-trigger world-wide, with land and sea-based ICBMs ready to launch, the treaty guaranteeing free transit of anybody and anything (NATO military supplies, whatever), was not hindered.

We were just passengers (in civilian clothes) on a multiple-times-daily regular train running from West Germany to West Berlin across USSR-controlled Warsaw-Pact Communist East Germany.

The RR corridor ran all the way through very serious chain-link barbed-wire fences.

But no Godless Communists, East German or Soviet Russian, every tried to stop that train.

Not since the Berlin Airlift (1948-49), and the subsequent treaties guaranteeing the free access RR corridor.

Say what you want, but the godless atheist Warsaw Pact Communists never cut off the trains running across Communist East Germany to West Berlin.

Now, anybody who thinks Lithuania, "The Mouse that Roared," woke up and decided to pull this on their own....I have this great tunnel in Florida to sell you.

[Zhang Fei]

It would be simpler if Königsberg simply reverted to its original German owners, and the Russians currently there received German residence permits, with citizenship on tap once they meet linguistic requirements. Could happen if the Russian empire falls apart at the conclusion of a defeat in Ukraine.

[datura]

You should have hung around later in Berlin - I was stationed there from 82-85 - Infantry.

We had lots of run ins with the Soviets.

I rode both the US and British duty trains to the West, often. Our battalion deployed to the Gap that way, as well as Hohenfels and other garden spots. The Brit train was great - early morning run, excellent breakfast..

[packrat35]

The Russians are winning in Ukraine. Why post this drivel?

[Travis McGee]

While you were there, did the Commies ever just announce and then enforce that they were stopping most West Germany to West Berlin trains, inspecting them, and denying access for most train cargos (including construction materials, etc)?

[Zhang Fei]

[Even at the height of the Cold War, with armies and navies facing off on a hair-trigger world-wide, with land and sea-based ICBMs ready to launch, the treaty guaranteeing free transit of anybody and anything (NATO military supplies, whatever), was not hindered.]

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It was only rhetorically on hair trigger alert. Everyone from top to bottom understood that starting a nuclear war meant killing their own families and friends. That’s why nothing happened despite repeated opportunities to do so. People like having family and friends around, and no amount of attempted brainwashing will change that. They’ll say all the right things to keep their jobs. But when ordered to do exactly as they’re told, many will balk.

Note that during the confrontation over access to Berlin, the *Russians* cut off road and rail access. Did Kennedy nuke Russia? No - he mounted the Berlin airlift. The Russians don’t need to mount an airlift to resupply Konigsberg, although they could certainly do so - they have access from the sea.

[Travis McGee]

You need to cut down the % of fentanyl in your hopium pipe.

Hopium dreams are pleasant, so I’m told, but not something to base your life plans upon.

Stop chasing the dragon. Wake up and touch grass.

[zek157]

Understanding geography with a minimal understanding of history should be sufficient to understand this might be a problem.

[Zhang Fei]

[The Russians are winning in Ukraine. Why post this drivel?]

---

If the Russians are winning, victory should speak for itself. Why bother posting here at all? Revel in Rodina’s imperial glory.

[Travis McGee]

I specifically mentioned treaties POST the 48-49 Berlin Airlift.

Were you too high on fentanyl hopium to notice?

If you are still conscious, and not too high, I was actually, physically, diving aboard several nuclear submarines from time to time in the 1980s.

Let me tell you, brother, those USN submarine crews were on a second-by-second wartime-footing nuclear hair-trigger. They were keeping track of the Soviet subs, and vice-versa, and life or death could come down to who reacted first and more effectively to the sound, say, of a distant torpedo tube outer door opening. It was hair-trigger wartime operations from submerging to surfacing (much later.)

If your 1980s nuclear submarine Cold War memories differ from mine, I’m all ears.

[CodeToad]

I don’t think the other poster has any real-world experiences to speak from, only liberal crap. As someone who communicated with those subs constantly, I have no doubt they were on hair-trigger alert and would launch as needed. No nuclear force was ever in doubt. None.

[Zhang Fei]

[You need to cut down the % of fentanyl in your hopium pipe.

Hopium dreams are pleasant, so I’m told, but not something to base your life plans upon.

Stop chasing the dragon. Wake up and touch grass.]

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The equipment buildup in Ukraine has been slow. But lacking the massive Cold War surplus that was used in Desert Storm, it’s understandable that Ukraine’s resupply has proceeded in fits and starts. But it’s getting off the ground.

Only 100+ guns have made their way to Ukraine. But that will continue. And as time goes on, Ukraine will have more guns to decrease the Russian advantage. As the Russian economy grinds to a halt, its capacity to merely keep its equipment going will gradually peter out. No one knows for sure when that will be. But odds are that by year-end, Russian positions will be east of where they are today, assuming the trickle of Western equipment gets to the point where the Russian firepower advantage is significantly whittled down from its current 10 to 1 edge.

[Zhang Fei]

[I specifically mentioned treaties POST the 48-49 Berlin Airlift.]

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Just because you want to skip any mention of Russian aggression doesn’t mean it did not occur.

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[Let me tell you, brother, those USN submarine crews were on a second-by-second wartime-footing nuclear hair-trigger. They were keeping track of the Soviet subs, and vice-versa, and life or death could come down to who reacted first and more effectively to the sound, say, of a distant torpedo tube outer door opening. It was hair-trigger wartime operations from submerging to surfacing (much later.)

If your 1980s nuclear submarine Cold War memories differ from mine, I’m all ears.]

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I understand all the theories, the wargaming and the brainwashing/indoctrination. But in the end, the ultimate question the operators have to answer is this - do they want to kill everyone they know? A couple of Russian operators thought the US had launched, but delayed responding because they understood that family, not orders, are everything.

Even you presumably balked at the idea of being a pawn on someone else’s chessboard. So you left the military and became your own man again.

[Travis McGee]

I am waiting to hear how you know this, from your personal experience:

“It was only rhetorically on hair trigger alert.”

Which Soviet, American or CCP submarines were you aboard during the 1980s to be able to know this?

I can’t wait to hear.

[Zhang Fei]

[I am waiting to hear how you know this, from your personal experience:

“It was only rhetorically on hair trigger alert.”

Which Soviet, American or CCP submarines were you aboard during the 1980s to be able to know this?

I can’t wait to hear.]

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Which nuclear war were you part of as the result of a false alarm? I can’t wait to hear. Here’s one where a Russian operator decided to hold off on informing his superiors even though he was told they were to be alerted immediately:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident