Posted on 06/22/2022 10:19:49 AM PDT by DFG
After three weeks? Wow, they really keep their charge! I’m buying a TESLA!
LOL
Also, while electric smart meters may themselves be okay given the possibility of damage during installation maybe they should be mounted on poles set away from structures?
Until you posted that comment, I was unaware that my smart meter had Li batteries.
https://www.smart-energy.com/storage/smart-metering-demands-advanced-lithium-batteries/
I’m dubious about the risk from such, but at least I’m now aware.
The problem, as I remember hearing of it, relates mainly to (all too common) shoddy installments that damage connection points and not so much the meters themselves ... which, if they have caused issues, are much less likely to if installed well.
It would seem that the old dumb meters were, as relatively simple electro-mechanical devices, more robust physically to damage, where smart meters can be damaged in such a way as to cause a condition that worsens over time and when there is a power surge things can go really wrong.
There are structural engineering articles for the construction of parking structures that deal with the high heat issues of battery fires. Apparently there have been cases of parking garages destroyed by them.
I’ll bet the toxic fumes given off are discounted in the auto emissions figures.
Had a golf cart security used in a building. One night while charging, the thing caught fire and while that wasn’t to bad, the 150K Ferrari sitting next to it also got burned.
Never seen so many suits and fireman before.
Or, you know, disconnect the battery leads.
Probably because the insurance company was dragging its feet on processing and paying out. That’s the usual reason cars sit in tow yards.
FYI, normal internal combustion cars have been hit, taken to a tow yard and burst into flames some time later too.
Just for kicks I once shot an old lithium-polymer model battery, 14.8V 4 cells. It burned longer than I thought and with TONS of smoke. Didn’t try to put it out.
FYI. The relatively few internal combustion engines that catch fire in a tow yard are much more easily put out.
Guess why savvy Tesla owners (is that an oxymoron?) leave their cars out of doors while they're charging.
Why would they? The function of the foam is to smother the fire, deprive it of oxygen. Lithium batteries burn in a chemical fire that needs no oxygen. In fact they burn just fine underwater unless the water manages to cool the burning batteries to below the temperature of spontaneous ignition.
May I suggest EVs need a system to automatically jettison the battery pack in case of detecting a terminal condition such as runaway overheating or open flame? I’d like to hear the best argument why a burning or smoldering battery pack should NOT be jettisoned.
The ejection mechanism would have to get the battery pack clear of the car even if was parked, so the best spot to aim for would probably be a few feet clear of the driver’s side rear tire. That would be in the roadway if the vehicle was parked next to a curb.
If this happens in a parking garage or a homeowner’s garage, keep in mind there was going to be a fire regardless. A burning battery pack is a much smaller fire than a burning car.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Model_3_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf
USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE.
If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take between approximately 3,000-8,000 gallons* (11,356-30,283 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request additional water supply early. If water is not immediately available, use CO2, dry chemicals, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
NOTE: Tesla does not recommend the use of foam on electric vehicles.
Apply water directly to the battery. If safety permits, lift or tilt the vehicle for more direct access to the battery (see chapter 2). Water may be applied from a safe distance ONLY if a natural opening (such as a vent or opening from a collision) already exists. Do not open the battery for the purpose of cooling it.
Tesla does not recommend placing the vehicle in a large container full of water. The use of a Thermal Imagery Camera or Infrared (TIC or IR) is recommended to monitor battery temperatures during the cooling process. Continue to use water until the battery has reached ambient temperatures or below, indicated by the thermal imagery camera. When utilizing a thermal imaging camera, allow enough time, once the application of water has stopped, to allow for heat within the battery to transfer to the battery enclosure.
Extinguish small fires that do not involve the high voltage battery using typical vehicle firefighting procedures.
During fire extinguishing, do not make contact with any high voltage components. Always use insulated tools for fire extinguishing.
Heat and flames can compromise airbag inflators, stored gas inflation cylinders, gas struts, and other components which can result in unexpected excessive heat, which can cause inflation cylinder explosion. Perform an adequate knock down before entering a hot zone.
Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to fully cool.** After suppression and smoke has visibly subsided, a thermal imaging camera can be used to actively measure the temperature of the high voltage battery and monitor the trend of heating or cooling. There must be no fire, smoke, audible popping/hissing, or heating present in the high voltage battery for at least 45 minutes before the vehicle can be released to second responders (such as law enforcement, vehicle transporters, etc.). The battery must be completely cooled before releasing the vehicle to second responders or otherwise leaving the incident.
Always advise second responders that there is a risk of battery re-ignition. Second responders should be advised to position the vehicle to drain excess water out of the vehicle by tilting or repositioning it. This operation can assist in mitigating possible re-ignition.
During all firefighting activities, consider the vehicle energized. Always wear full PPE, including a Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA).
WARNING
High-Voltage Battery — Fire Damage
Similar to conventional and other electric and hybrid vehicles, a burning battery releases super-heated gases and toxic vapors. This release may include volatile organic compounds, hydrogen gas, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, soot, particulates containing oxides of nickel, aluminum, lithium, copper, cobalt, and hydrogen fluoride. Responders should always protect themselves with full PPE, including SCBA, and take appropriate measures to protect civilians downwind from the incident.
The high voltage battery consists of lithium-ion cells. If damaged, only a small amount of fluid can leak.
The high voltage battery and drive unit(s) are liquid cooled with a typical glycol-based automotive coolant. If damaged, this blue coolant can leak out of the high voltage battery.
A damaged high voltage battery can create rapid heating of the battery cells. If you notice smoke, steam, or audible popping or hissing coming from the high voltage battery, assume that it is heated and take appropriate action as described above.
***********************************************************************************
* The fire resported in the OP of this thread is the only one I ever have read of that took less than 10,000 gallons to extinguish. They’re being wildly optimistic.
** I have never heard of even a single Tesla battery terhman runaway fire that was extinguished in less than 24 hours. They’re being wildly optimistic. Again.
Not possible. The battery (which weighs +/- 1000 lbs) is so large they had to distribute it throughout the chassis for reasons of weight distribution. It's an integral part of the frame.
You do make a great point, but Musk anticipated it and already had the car engineered to negate it.
It’s not the engines but damaged and exposed electrical systems. The car sits in the yard, water or something else shorts power to ground and the car goes up.
An ICE car fire is easier to but out than an electric car.
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