Posted on 06/20/2022 4:22:56 PM PDT by Eleutheria5
Day 112. Today we discuss the latest updates from across Ukraine and Europe with Telegraph correspondent Nicola Smith in Ukraine, Assistant comment editor Francis Dearnley here in the studio and Dom Nicholls from Oslo Airport.
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Please give us a hint.
Because the title sounds like it’s just more praising Ukrainian soldiers for their willingness to die for “western leaning” corruption.
40 minutes? SMH...
British Defense Secretary. Does that help? 🙂
It is already 15 days old...
“It is already 15 days old...”
Like the age of the report really matters. Today’s report will be just more of the same.
Ukes are being slaughtered for what? Xiden and Boris Johnson and that crew of losers.
It’s okay for England going to war with Russia, if that’s what it wants to do.
Just leave the USA out of it.
de fence is Inspector Clouseau talk
NV
6/16/22
Ukraine suffering up to 1,000 casualties per day in Donbas, MP says
Yes. He’s an evil dictator. So let Ukraine be taken over by Putin, in whose mouth butter wouldn’t melt, and who wouldn’t harm a fly unless it wants to join NATO./sarc
Listening is done with one’s ears, not one’s mouth.
2 evil dictators
Let Europe sort it out.
Hope you like mushrooms.
Last time we “let Europe sort it out,” millions died, millions more were left slaves, and there was a Mexican standoff with nuclear bombs for fifty years.
Besides, it’s one evil dictator vs. one naughty dictator. Just outlawed opposition party means he’s an amateur dictator. Putin’s opposition keeps dying not-so-mysteriously.
Zelensky is a non-issue. If he weren’t at least leading the fight he would have been totally useless. While your at tsk tsk-ing VZ for this or that, let’s discuss Churchill’s abysmal performance as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Just as relevant. When this war is finally over, and Ukraine successfully stops Putin from winning by spilling their blood, sweat and tears, VZ can lose the next election, just like Churchill did. His purpose will be at an end, if he’s still alive. If he dies a martyr’s death in the interim, his statue will adorn the Maidan, and the brave Ukrainian fighters who will continue to resist in his hallowed name, and all that. And it’ll save everyone the fuss and bother of him being an obsolete factor in the next election, as Churchill was after his war.
In fact, the video barely even mentions Zelensky, but has plenty of substantive discussions about Russia and Ukraine and the current situation in Donbas. So rather than sit still for all that, you want to switch the subject to Zelensky. Why not just ignore the whole thread and save me the trouble of responding to yet another bit of blather.
Over 34K Russian troops have died so far... so it’s hardly a one-sided battle.
But now that you have revealed which side you are on, I might ask: Whether Ukraine or any other nation bordering Russia - Does a nation have the right (and responsibility) to defend itself when said neighbor invades?
All the propagandizing of supposed bio labs and abject corruption (which would easily and even more accurately be said of Russia, but that’s another discussion). Why the seeming distaste for a nation’s sovereignty? Certainly doesn’t seem a fitting position on what (at least historically), FreeRepublic has been about.
What you said.
Disagree.
Somebody disagrees with...with...ME?!!! Kreegah! Bundalo!
So why do you disagree? On what basis? In what respect? It can’t be because VZ is not a pristine saint. I never said he was.
I never actually even said anything, and urged you to listen with your ears, a novel concept that I lifted from George R.R. Martin. So what did you disagree with in this discussion by a lot of people with British accents, one of whom is a minister in the UK? She says that the morale of the Ukrainians doing the fighting is surprisingly high, despite reports to the contrary. She found this out by talking to civilians, soldiers and militiamen on the Ukrainian side, while traveling slowly from Lviv to Donbas.
Do you disagree with that? Have you been talking to people while you were in Ukraine, traveling from Lviv to Donbas, and found them totally despondent?
So you disagree. BFD.
—> So you disagree. BFD.
Yes. Surely. Agree.
“Does a nation have the right (and responsibility) to defend itself when said neighbor invades?”
Sure they do. Do all the countries invaded covertly by our CIA enticing regime change and riots also have the same right?
-Ukraine — Maidan Revolution
-Arab Spring
-Syrian invasion
How about...
-Iraq
-Afghanistan
-Lybia
-Kosovo (Serbia)
-Libya
-All independent countries invaded by U.S.
You are pushing the wrong argument and conflating aiding the people with other far less flattering operations (and you are oddly blending innovation with equipping and aiding, minus actual invasion). False equivalence is the logical fallacy you are using (among others).
I find it interesting that the first you list is the Maidan Revolution. I’ve read about as much as I can find from a wide variety of sources on that, in combination with having stood on Maidan Square and walked the steps where many were killed (and where nearly 2 million Ukrainians stood in protest for many days). I’ve stood where government snipers began picking off protestors. I’ve spoken (personally, in Kyiv) to folks who were there that day and saw with their own eyes. And somehow the people of Ukraine are unaware that the Maidan Revolution was actually a US invasion.
What they do know (and this is more than overwhelmingly backed by evidence) -
Ukrainian people were abused by the Soviet Union for pretty much the entire life span of the old Soviet Union. Treated as little more than the agricultural supply house, and the dumping ground for everything Moscow didn’t want in their own back yard. When Ukraine finally split from Russia - they thought they were free - but the USSR, in it’s perceived death throwes, still had a VERY operative KGB (and its follow-on organization, very similar to the CIA - but worse). So Ukraine, left in shambles (the International Community coined a brand new designation: 4th World for Ukraine and the other breakaway states - because while they had some appearance of 1st World, their infrastructure was left in truly horrendous state (it was never particularly good - again, Ukraine and others were treated as hated stepchildren under the USSR/Russia).
Promises of improvements by politicians - with elections that proved both extremely corrupt and high-profile and prolific corruption at the highest of offices - left the people broken. They also saw the DNA/fingerprint of Russia (which was very real) - and the hatred of all things Russian and even remotely thought of as “Communist” was like leprosy. Yet President Viktor Yanukovych, elected with promises to join the EU and to root out both corruption and Communists (a very common campaign platform in Ukraine) - and with a whole lot of election fraud (again - Russian actions)... quickly proved to be every bit as corrupt as the nation was trying to cast out - and oh - he also had Kremlin ties - And when he refused to address the issues - the protests began (Euromaidan) - triggered (in part) by his reniging on signing on to the European Union trade agreement that was very popular among the citizens.
But alas - no doubt the US CIA was more than happy to help stoke the fires - Russia was still a “bad guy” in our book. But while conspiracy theorists and those who (mostly accurately) hate on US intervention, both overt and covert, have tried to paint this event in Ukraine in 2014 as a US action - as if the US started it - just doesn’t hold water. The US/CIA just took advantage of the Ukrainian hate for Russia and anger at such widespread corruption. But it was at the root level - far more Russian in nature - as they were pulling their puppet president’s strings.
But within days - Putin launched his campaign to annex the Crimean peninsula. What many overlook (willfully or not) is that Putin had been funneling his own terrorists and operatives in for quite some time - even to the point of working them into positions of political power. All because Putin wanted the Pennensula back. Never mind that the Soviet Union literally handed the same land to Ukraine, voluntarily in 1954 - and then again was confirmed by Gorbachev (for some reason, those references and documents have been disappearing from the internet...) But - but -but... The KGB remnants (of which Putin is unabashedly a part of) couldn’t stand it - So he pulled the trigger on his plan to get the Crimean peninsula back - which had been shaping up for years... His operatives out CIA’ed the CIA - pulling off terrorist attacks and blaming Ukraine... Then claimed it was Russians in Crimean who wanted to be back in Russia...giving Putin the excuse he “needed” to launch his war again just days after the Maidan revolution).
But whatever - facts don’t seem to matter for those who want to lump every US misdeed into every trouble in the world (you far underestimate the Russians and other players in the world stage) -
And I really don’t grasp your list and its relevance to this current circumstance - as you don’t even know my views on any of them (but the Arab-spring connected ones were the act of a Muslim usurper in the Whitehouse fighting a war for his Islamic brethren).
Iraq - Saddam bad (yes), but current situation is FAR worse. Iraq should have never happened (first gulf war - might could be justified, since it was Saddam who invaded neighbors and the US + other allies asked to help). 2nd Iraq war shouldn’t have been necessary to begin with. (and the justification was based on pretty horrid “evidence” that Colin Bowell helped sell- ). Afghanistan - sigh. a huge stinkfest - that should have never started (we probably had a better chance of taking out Osama via other “methods” than decades of stupid no-win war (only to then leave $billions in weapons to the very same Taliban we had been fighting against).
Syria and Assad - Assad another Saddam-like thug, but US interference via supporting known terrorists... not a good thing. But again - notice the Russian connection to that as well.
The web is far more tangled than most want to acknowledge - and Russia is just as much a part of the tangling as the US.
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